🤓 Nerd alert: Vit E tocopherols vs tocotrienols with Dr. Barrie Tan
This week on The Less Stressed Life Podcast, I am joined by Dr. Barrie Tan. In this episode, we get SUPER NERDY about types of Vitamin E. Dr. Tan sources Vitamin E from annatto, the stuff that colors your cheese yellow and is from a tree in South America. Since I had just returned from South America right before recording this episode, we hit it off talking about Incan cultural uses of annatto. Just a day in my dream life of being a podcaster.
- Cell membranes (which actually applies to you if you have ANY condition, deficiency or dry skin)
- Fatty liver disease, lipids, inflammation, weight loss, cancer and the impact of specific types of Vitamin E
- Tocotrienols and sources from palm, rice and annatto and protecting the antioxidant from oxidation (making it anti-healthy).
Dr. Barrie Tan is hailed as a trailblazer and the world’s foremost expert on vitamin E. A scientist first and foremost, Dr. Tan earned his Ph.D. in Chemistry/Biochemistry from the University of Otago, New Zealand and spent several years as a professor at UMass. His research expertise includes lipid-soluble nutrients (carotenoids, E vitamers, CoQ10, and omega-3s) that impact chronic conditions. He was the first to introduce tocotrienols benefits to the nutrition industry and developed the first-ever tocopherol-free tocotrienol product derived from annatto. Dr. Tan continues to collaborate with numerous universities worldwide to further tocotrienol research. Beyond tocotrienol, Dr. Tan’s research now spans into geranylgeraniol, a critical endogenous nutrient for healthy aging.
Dr. Tan has held roles of Chief Scientific Officer and Scientific Board Member for multinational organizations. His career includes periods working in association with the US Armed Forces and a Prince of Thailand as well as being an internationally celebrated and sought-after speaker, having presented at multiple respected conferences in the field including; IFT, ADA, ASN, IHS, A4M, NPA, AACR, ICIM, AOCS, IAOMT, and the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. Renowned for his engaging warmth and gracious humor, Dr. Tan has also been featured in array of popular media including the Ben Greenfield and JJ Virgin podcasts.
Dr. Tan is currently the President of American River Nutrition, a natural health R&D company he started with his wife, Elizabeth, in 1998. Described as a scientific pioneer, his mission is simple, improve the everyday health of people’s lives.
WHERE TO FIND:
Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-barrie-tan/
WHERE TO FIND CHRISTA:
Leave a review, submit a questions for the podcast or take one of my quizzes here: https://www.christabiegler.com/links
[00:00:00] Dr. Barrie Tan: Of all the antioxidant, they are recruited to the cell wall. 90% of those antioxidant are vitamin E of the tens of thousands of other antioxidant. They are antioxidant, but they don't go to the cell wall.
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[00:00:58] Christa: All right. Hi, today, I'm very excited about this. This is really a nerd episode. So I have Dr. Barry Tan. He's hailed as a trailblazer and as the world's foremost expert on vitamin E, which I don't know about you. There's a lot of. Nutrition professionals in the audience. I hope you're all as excited as I am about this.
[00:01:16] Christa: We just got done with a 15 minute conversation about a NATO being a source of vitamin E and traveling to the south of Peru, which is where I just got back from. So Dr. Tan is a scientist, first and foremost, and he earned his PhD in chemistry and biochemistry from the University of O Tango, New Zealand, and spent several years as a professor at University of Massachusetts.
[00:01:38] Christa: His research expertise includes lipid soluble nutrients, carotinoids cocuten, vitamin E B-vitamins, is what it says. I'm gonna ask him all about this in Omega three s that impact chronic conditions, he was the first to introduce Toco Triol benefit to the nutritional industry and develop the first ever cougher all free Toko Triol product derived from Anato, which is why he had to travel to Peru to try to find this.
[00:02:05] Christa: And he was able to just reach over and grab all these photos. of his trip. Toru, he continues to collaborate with numerous universities worldwide to further toco trial research and beyond that, he now spans into, I can't even say this word. What is that? Jer
[00:02:21] Dr. Barrie Tan: Jerol Jerol.
[00:02:22] Christa: Okay. Well, Geral jal, it's a critical endogenous nutrient for healthy aging.
[00:02:29] Christa: Yes. So he is currently the president of American River Nutrition at Natural Health r and d company. He started with his wife Elizabeth in 1998, and his mission simple to improve the everyday health. Of people's lives. Welcome Dr. Tan.
[00:02:43] Dr. Barrie Tan: Thank you so much. Thank you for introducing me. Looking forward to your podcast.
[00:02:48] Christa: All right, so I'm excited to talk about vitamin E and E. Was that correct? It said E vitamins. Vitamins,
[00:02:55] Dr. Barrie Tan: yeah. Sometime people vitamin E would be fine. V vitamin just means that. They are, uh, more than one e like that. So yes, so it's, uh, for the big broad sweep, there are two classes of vitamin E. The common one in your cereal box would be took off for.
[00:03:11] Dr. Barrie Tan: And then the lesser known one, which is what I've said most of my adult, uh, uh, life, uh, studying is called. I, I tell you the word is a little bit mouth, far forward. Toco. Trino. So Toro, that is common one and the less common one. Toco. Trino. And almost all the study favor. In, uh, connecting with chronic health conditions.
[00:03:34] Christa: Mm. Okay. So, well, let's, we'll back up. I wanna jump right in there, but we better back up mm-hmm. To talk about why should people care about vitamin E, especially in terms of aging. Yes, .
[00:03:45] Dr. Barrie Tan: I can even set it to make it more stunning for the listener. Why should people should not care about vitamin E? In the late 1990s and 2000, there were a lot of published work that Vitamin E didn't work, and at best, and at worst, it may even cause women to have breast cancer and meant to have prostate cancer.
[00:04:04] Dr. Barrie Tan: So I've just told you the. Afterwards on vitamin E like that, that kind of vitamin E at the time was referring to Toro. If you look at the study, the all Toro and Toco trial, you know, clearly is a non-res. Nobody talks about it. Even today, I'm bringing forth the understanding of TOCO trial. You know, then why vitamin E and why TOCO trial, you know?
[00:04:26] Dr. Barrie Tan: If you take several setbacks, each of us have about 38 trillion cells in our body. We usually don't think like that. 38 trillion cells that approximate to 5,000 times the population of the earth, a big number. But if you think of a cell, Just think of it, it looked like the mouse here. All the content inside the cell and surrounding the cell would be cell membrane.
[00:04:51] Dr. Barrie Tan: And the cell membrane contains the content of the cell, otherwise, the cell cannot exist. So if you think of it in the practical sense, the cell membrane would be like a gated community. A well gated community will help those within to function properly. Nutrients go in and waste goes. Very simple like that.
[00:05:12] Dr. Barrie Tan: Now, what the audience may or may not know is almost all the content of the cell walls are fat. When you think of a person, say, having 30% fat or 35% fat, we are thinking of the love handle, the butt or the arm, something like that. That's not where most of the fat are. Most of the fat are actually in the cell wall.
[00:05:34] Dr. Barrie Tan: That's one, one note. The second note would. There are, there are thousands and thousands of antioxidant out there. So if I were not to be a scientist, I would be confused like math, because the word antioxidant is overused. I can help you to navigate that very simply, if you think of the four major food groups, fat.
[00:05:56] Dr. Barrie Tan: Protein carbohydrate. Usually we think of these three, but actually there's a fourth one, and that would be nucleic acid. All the dna, this and every need nucleic acid of all these four category, the fat is the easiest to get oxidized. So I am more interested in the fat to get. Oxidize how to protect her because it is the lowest line fruit to go get bad.
[00:06:18] Dr. Barrie Tan: If you don't believe me. You drive over a roadkill on a hot summer day. You smell that, you know what I mean? You have a stick of butter on uh, outside. On a hot summer day, you go back to smell the sicker butter. Two hours later, you know that is fat. Oxidation like that. So therefore, protecting the cell wall, which is mostly fat, is most important to me.
[00:06:39] Dr. Barrie Tan: Now, I got your attention. I'll tell you this. Of all the antioxidant, they are recruited to the cell wall. 90% of those antioxidant are vitamin E. Of the tens of thousands of other antioxidant, they are antioxidant, but they don't go to the cell wall. So therefore, I care about vitamin E and how they will protect the cell to allow it to be a propagated community.
[00:07:05] Dr. Barrie Tan: That's it. So the antioxidant capability is all important and Vitamin E can
[00:07:10] Christa: do that. Got it. Okay. So we've got this, I always call this this phospho lipid layer of every cell. Is that right? Yes, yes. Yep. That is correct. So in order for the phospho lipid layer of the cell to move nutrients in and out of the cell, vitamin E is a huge piece of it.
[00:07:24] Christa: Is that another way to say that?
[00:07:26] Dr. Barrie Tan: Yep. Yes, a hundred percent. Okay. I avoided saying phospho lipid because I don't know if the audience would need explanation. I said, but since you say yes, the phospho lipid is the one that line up the entire cell wall, so mostly the phospho lipid. If I were to make a guess, probably about 70, 80% of each phospholipid is.
[00:07:47] Dr. Barrie Tan: So therefore, if you think of the cell wall, it is threequarter of it fat
[00:07:51] Christa: or more. And this makes such a big difference. I mean, I think about this all the time with clients because if we are having any issues with fatty acid, digestion with what's going on with the gallbladder or the liver, et cetera, all of this can be affected.
[00:08:05] Christa: Right? Yes, that's correct. Um, so all of our A, d, E, and K or fat soluble nutrients can be impacted and that's gonna impact the ability for the cells to get nutrients in and out of the cell, which is where all the magic is gonna happen inside the cell, right? Yes. Correct. So you at some point discovered, hey, vitamin E seems to be the big under acknowledged.
[00:08:27] Christa: Powerhouse for the cell wall. Is that right? For anti-aging. And so then you decided I'm gonna dive into vitamin E research and the, I don't know, the rest is history perhaps. Yeah. Um, and you can interrupt me at any time, but we can get in a little bit more into these differences. I have some more questions about Toof rolls versus tocotrienols.
[00:08:48] Christa: Mm-hmm. . And I know you have studied mostly tocotrienols, but I'm using what I think are really good vitamin E supplements. Well, I wanna go back to something else you said you. That tocopherols in early literature in, in maybe the late nineties, said that, Hey, the tocopherols are associated with negative impacts.
[00:09:07] Christa: Well, mm-hmm. , you're right. Uh, and I am using a vitamin E that I think is good, but it is different types of tocopherols. So it's ed. Tocopherol complex of like different types of tocopherols, D, gamma, D, Delta, D beta, TEALS, mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Does that make a different, so I'm using vitamin E for a few different reasons, but one reason I like vitamin E is it kind of mimics progesterone or helps support progesterone a bit.
[00:09:35] Christa: What would you say about these rolls? Because I'm using this one, I always thought it was really good and, and you're saying, Tocotrienols is the only way to go. So
[00:09:45] Dr. Barrie Tan: how about we say with the Toro from the question you asked? Mm-hmm. , if you think of the Toof, the four Greek letters is alpha, beta, delta and gamma Toro.
[00:09:55] Dr. Barrie Tan: The D that you mentioned, it just mean it is the, the arrangement in space and D is what the plant makes. That's it. And, uh, it just mean from the Latin word dextro. And then sometimes it's l levo. And then when they make it synthetically, it's DL is dextro and Levo 50 50 like that. Mm-hmm. , they cannot make one or the other.
[00:10:16] Dr. Barrie Tan: They just blend together. But the plant always make the dextro and then, and hands d like that plant largely. Gamma Toro, like in so bean and in corn, and they make this to protect the fat and oil. So I always tell my audience that, you know, the plant never make things for human being. We just got it into the head that the plant make it for us.
[00:10:41] Dr. Barrie Tan: We just lucky and should be thankful that the plant make this and the plant make this usually. Protect themself from going bad. And usually plant, they make a lot of this is when they have a lot of vegetable oil. La la they say something, they make a lot of vitamin E to protect their vegetable oil. So oils and fat is the reason why plant makes them, which is why in human being, the more fat we contain, the more it need to be protected.
[00:11:10] Dr. Barrie Tan: And again, I. Holding the love handle is not it. It mold because most of our fat is in the cell wall. Your eyes cannot see. There's just too many of them, and that's where the vitamin E is. And human don't make vitamin E, so therefore we depend on oil and fat to give it to us. But the plant makes mostly gamma toro.
[00:11:31] Dr. Barrie Tan: And hence, if you take a mix Toro, the contained delta and gamma Toro would be better. Then it would be the more famous, uh, vitamin E, which is alpha Toro. That's one. So there is a misunderstanding of E, and furthermore, there's a misuse of E and also misunderstanding. I'll tell you where the misunderstanding is.
[00:11:53] Dr. Barrie Tan: I'm actually spending. Help people to understand Alpha Toro became a vitamin, not because of his antioxidant property or anything else. It became a vitamin because it helped the feeders to get the full term. , that should just stop everybody for a moment. So therefore, vitamin E is a birth vitamin, and I'm 99% sure that the, the audience is drawing a blank.
[00:12:22] Dr. Barrie Tan: Really? Really, it is known as a vitamin because it helped the feeders to go to full term. This has been shown exactly 100 years ago by two scientists and pediatrician from uc. That's it. But however it is, very shortly after that, they found out there's a very powerful antioxidant. So that was, uh, probably the 1930s like that.
[00:12:45] Dr. Barrie Tan: So therefore, when, where does this show up That, uh, Toko Triol Toko Trio show up in the 1960, almost 40, 50 years after. It is almost a. R U N T of the vitamin E. They almost never got born like that. I know it's pun intended. So therefore, when Eddie show up and then soon after I became a UMass professor, I begin to study this.
[00:13:10] Dr. Barrie Tan: And then that was in the 1980s and 1990s. Everybody's doing research at Alpha Toro. That's fine. But then in 2000, all the alpha took cultural study bomb. So when it bombed, I thought I am in deep trouble. They're gonna throw the baby with the bath water and nobody's gonna be interested in Toco Tri, you know?
[00:13:29] Dr. Barrie Tan: But I persisted. I persisted to study this, and now I'm happy to say after another 20 years. So now my research life is nearly over like that. But I persisted on this, and I can tell you this, that when it comes to vitamin E, . It works on chronic conditions and of all the chronic conditions we study dyslipidemia, pre-diabetes, diabetes, metabolic syndrome, and then people with fatty liver disease's.
[00:14:00] Dr. Barrie Tan: A big, big, big group already like that. Mm-hmm. . And we consistently see. Toco Triol mitigate these kind of conditions that to offroad does not share. So I'll leave you to decide which one do you wanna pick up for discussion That that's what I have found over the years. And then separately, we have about six to eight clinical trials that we study on Toco Triol with people with advanced cancer.
[00:14:25] Dr. Barrie Tan: that's a whole class by itself. So it's, these are all the studies that I have done and clinical studies take a long, long time to study. Animal study will probably have a hundred of them like that. So there you
[00:14:37] Christa: it. . Mm-hmm. . Okay. Got it. Well, let's talk a little bit more about Toko Tris, which is where you spend your time and you're, it's making an impact on dyslipidemia, pre-diabetes, metabolic syndrome, fatty liver.
[00:14:51] Christa: As well as other things. So let's talk about this because we're talking about these extracts. Maybe we need to zoom out a little bit. Where do we get Toco Tris? Officially, how do we procure them? Tell me about some of the research and gimme some examples of how you've seen this make a difference, especially if you want to share about what you guys are doing in cancer research, which maybe we wanna go that route
[00:15:15] Dr. Barrie Tan: in a little bit.
[00:15:15] Dr. Barrie Tan: Yeah. Now, in terms of where you get them, when you go online, if you type vitamin E, there will be, let's say there's a hundred companies, shop vitamin E, and you should. That 90, 95% of them will be Toro. So you have to screen them out, and then you get like five or less than 10 of them. Toco, triol. Then there will be three.
[00:15:36] Dr. Barrie Tan: You're gonna see three Rice, which is very few. A lot of them will be Palm Toco, triol from Palm, and then there'll be Anto. A N N A T T O. Do you want to look for Anto? And why is this? Because palm and rice contain 25 to 50% of their content is tora. You don't want that. You want Toko Try, you know, ask is Toko try, you know, because that's the one that is doing the function.
[00:16:02] Dr. Barrie Tan: So the aao, if it is made by us in Massachusetts, we are the only people who make Toko right now in the United States, in Massachusetts here. Then we carry the trade. Delta Go D E L t, like Delta Airline, Delta Gold, because most of the vitamin E is Delta. Toco. Triol and then a little bit of Gamma Toco, triol and nothing else.
[00:16:24] Dr. Barrie Tan: Companies you can buy it from, you can go, if you type Delta Gold, Toco, Trino, it probably list you all the company, two or three companies that I did very happy with the designs for. You can buy from Amazon, you can buy from them directly. And another company would be Allergy Research Group, AC Grays, just to name a few.
[00:16:45] Dr. Barrie Tan: They are the people that use our to TriNet and they brand their own names. That's it. Mm. We just make bulk. We don't make finished product, but however, the clinical study, if you go to my website, you can download all the study that we produced because we hone in on it. Mm-hmm. , you asked about what would be some studies we did.
[00:17:03] Dr. Barrie Tan: We first study people to lower cholesterol. They typically lower 15 to 20%, and the amount that they take would be more like a hundred to 200 milligram, something like that per day. We also encourage people to take a hundred to 200 milligram as an antioxidant protection for pre-diabetes and diabetes.
[00:17:23] Dr. Barrie Tan: Take usually about three to 400 milligram like that. And then, or at least the clinical study, we did that. And then for cancer study we had studied that done with about 600 milligram or even higher. So those are the broad sweep. You said what are the, some condition in the most recent study we did was on people with, uh, fatty liver disease, fatty liver.
[00:17:47] Dr. Barrie Tan: Definitely is in the group of people who have insulin resistance metabolic syndrome. We decided to go after fatty liver disease about six, seven years ago, Christa, and, and the reason we did that is this, I noticed that the liver is the largest solid organ and about 90 to a hundred million American have fatty liver.
[00:18:11] Dr. Barrie Tan: And 30 years ago, we would insult the liver so badly from alcohol to have this. And today dietarily, we can even destroy the liver. Nothing to do with alcohol. So this fatty liver thing is very important. If the audience would Google. N A F L D, non alcohol fatty liver disease. You can find out C D, C, and everybody writes about it.
[00:18:35] Dr. Barrie Tan: So it's really a very dramatic thing that need attention and no drugs to do that. So we decided to keep people tocotrienol first. In the three month study, we saw that the liver enzyme drug, so that was a good sign that was published. We continue another study of the same, and then we study people with liver enzyme.
[00:18:56] Dr. Barrie Tan: Inflammation and then triglycerides because the triglycerides tend to be high and the sugar moderately high like that, that also dropped. So that was very encouraging. Then I decided that I should stop then. But meanwhile, I thought since the liver is such a large organ, let's do a one year study. and the one year study really takes three years to do.
[00:19:17] Dr. Barrie Tan: One year, it just the exact length of time. You gotta recruit people, you gotta finish up. They take long time. And here we start, we saw theosis, the fat in the liver removed, and then the fibrosis is also arrested. So we published that. So right now we have a time dependent. We give the same dose time dependent study on three, six, and 12 month study.
[00:19:41] Dr. Barrie Tan: They consistently work to reduce inflammation, meth, metabolism, dysfunction, and then sugar liver, and also look at fibrosis and cosis. We also have a surprising fine Krista that in the study. , we noticed that people at three, six, and 12 months, their lost weight. They lost approximately 5% of the weight, meaning translating to about 10 to 15 pounds.
[00:20:10] Dr. Barrie Tan: I resisted in doing that because it was not in the design. It's very easy. They just have to stand on the weighing balance. They can find it out, you know? Mm-hmm. , so, mm-hmm. . So we have to figure out how to say that because if I say it is a weight loss product, then people would expect something would happen in a month or.
[00:20:28] Dr. Barrie Tan: But we never had a study about one month. Our shortest study was three months, three, six, and 12 months. But so now I know how to say it. They lose weight. We have documented that they lost weight 10 to 15 pounds at three months, six months, and 12 months. So right now, not a bragging right, but to let people know that they consistently and sustainably lost weight.
[00:20:53] Dr. Barrie Tan: At the earliest time, point of three months, also sustained. At six months and 12 months, we think that it is not necessarily a weight loss product. Instead, their metabolism is so outta kilter. It came back into balance and the inflammation decrease and the body is able to sustain itself and. They begin to lose weight.
[00:21:18] Dr. Barrie Tan: So actually the weight gain is an inflammatory process. So when they lost the inflammation, the weight loss. So if I say like that, I will be a lot more comfortable than strike out on a weight loss thing, which I'm never comfortable, you know, many weight loss product and then they come back. You see there something is wrong with the weight loss product, but now I can consistently say that even after 12 months, they stay lost.
[00:21:43] Dr. Barrie Tan: So I, I'm thrilled. So that is the last you asked me for some example. That's probably our best example we had so far.
[00:21:50] Christa: Well, tell me about with this three, six, and 12 month study that you're doing, what's the dose of tocotrienol that you're giving that people are taking?
[00:21:59] Dr. Barrie Tan: We gave people 300 milligram two times a day.
[00:22:03] Dr. Barrie Tan: So, uh, every day will be 600 milligram and then they should take it with a meal because it's uh, it's lipid soluble. Mm-hmm. . Oh yeah, here's my pill. See that? You see the tori, you know, the 300 milligram is actually very small, like. That here. Mm-hmm. , it is more like this. This will be the actual size, and then you see from Palm, even at 200 milligram, it's already three to four times the size of the 300 milligram.
[00:22:31] Dr. Barrie Tan: Mm-hmm. . So we concentrate this to the highest concentration we could. Mm-hmm. . And we ask people to take it with a meal. So particularly people who have fat male absorption, and sometime they may have the gallbladder. Or people, they have cystic fibrosis like that, their problem with fat absorption. So they, if they take it with a meal, then they have a chance to have it fully emulsified and the toco tri would ab absorb better then it would be on an empty stomach if for no other reason is lipid soluble, so it should be taken.
[00:23:05] Christa: Right, right, right, right. I was just thinking about these people's weight loss, and that's always, you know, such a fun, it perks people's ears up, but I think we wanna stop and say like, you, well, what was wrong? Right. Them, they had a lot of metabolic dysfunction. Why do they have metabolic dysfunction? I mean, at a, at a basic level, do we even get nutrients in and out of our cells, I think, right?
[00:23:25] Christa: Yeah. Or can our liver even function very well? So if you can impact, I mean, the impact of vitamin E. Many nutrients Right. Has so many different functions that if you're really supporting something that makes such a big difference on such a every single cell getting Yeah, yeah. Out, then the sky's the limit on the possibilities that can happen.
[00:23:46] Christa: And, and our body likes to store waste in fat, right? So if we improve our abilities, our body's ability to process through that, or our liver's ability to deal with toxic burden, then we can naturally. Weight as well, right?
[00:24:01] Dr. Barrie Tan: Yeah, like, and you know, right now this is probably going to be our last, I keep saying that, but I keep changing my mind.
[00:24:08] Dr. Barrie Tan: You know, our last study is done in Texas, so we are studying men and women with obesity, which means that BMI is, uh, 30 to 35, so now they're carrying a lot of inflammation in their body. And then so we'll see where they would go. The study would not complete until the end of next year. Like that. And the pandemic have ham.
[00:24:30] Dr. Barrie Tan: The progress somewhat so, but we are now continuing that. So that's that piece. The cancer study that we are doing in Denmark is continuing. So we right now I know you didn't ask, but I just thought, uh, spilling.
[00:24:42] Christa: Oh, I'm happy. I'm happy you're spilling the
[00:24:44] Dr. Barrie Tan: spelling, the details. Yeah. We are studying four cancers and my colleague is studying.
[00:24:50] Dr. Barrie Tan: In Florida is studying pancreatic cancer and the four cancer we're doing in Denmark are, are two of them, uh, for women, and the other two are men and women. So they are ovarian breasts, lung and colon cancer. So of all these four cancers, we are four. And then my colleague five. We have some result from two of them, the pancreatic cancer even as low as 200 milligram.
[00:25:17] Dr. Barrie Tan: The excise tumor, we saw that the Toco triol would kill the cancer in the excise tumor. So that's one in the Danish study. The ovarian cancer came out. These are stage four cancer patient crystal, meaning that they have no more available option. So therefore, the design of the study would be the, the, uh, people on standard of care with chemotherapy and standard of care.
[00:25:45] Dr. Barrie Tan: With tocotrienol, they take very high doses, like 900 milligram, 300 milligram three times a day. Remember, they're stage four. Mm-hmm. not three, two, or one, like. Right. So they're no available option. And the study was initially designed for six months because after six months, those who are standard of care, they die.
[00:26:03] Dr. Barrie Tan: You know? Mm-hmm. like that. Yeah. So they're not there. So after six months on, on the control study, they're no more, but. On the one that, uh, doing a standard of care plus Toco, tri know 60, 70% of them are still living. Mm-hmm. . So the study would have stopped. That would be very dramatic. But the nurses decided that they want the study to continue.
[00:26:25] Dr. Barrie Tan: So the principal investigators said, if we continue the study, what are we going to compare with? Because the other group, they are not there anymore to compare anyway. They managed to get approval for the study to continue up to 24 months, which means four times longer and even after 24 months, 25% of them still living.
[00:26:45] Dr. Barrie Tan: So there's something to be said, you know, when something is terminal that is still have a chance for the Toko, try not to act to figure out how to kill the cancer cell even in such dire situations. Mm-hmm. .
[00:26:58] Christa: Yeah, we're happy. Right now you gotta make it even stronger and you're taking it orally, so like there's no injection to a certain site, or No, I mean, it's just, just orally and letting the body kind of do what it needs
[00:27:10] Dr. Barrie Tan: to do.
[00:27:11] Dr. Barrie Tan: Yeah. Currently that's what we're doing. If we were to be in. Process of drug making. Mm-hmm. , we'll probably will have one water soluble and intravenously given it, but we are not a drug company. We're just giving it orally like that. And actually, I was not going to go into the cancer. Uh, I went there because there were hundreds and hundreds of published study on Delta to Triol.
[00:27:33] Dr. Barrie Tan: And in animal study, if you just put Delta to trial and cancer, you're gonna see a lot of paper published. And then we decided to do some clinical trials like that. Otherwise we would've stayed in the chronic conditions, like I mentioned to you on the fatty liver dyslipidemia type two diabetes, and I like that.
[00:27:50] Dr. Barrie Tan: And by the way, you mentioned healthy people. We have one study that we did originally. We did two healthy people study postmenopausal women. Like that. So they're probably about 50 and older like that, and they're otherwise no other thing like that. And we found out that it increased and better than metabolism.
[00:28:11] Dr. Barrie Tan: We also study men and women's elderly, 60 to 65 years old, and we saw that the inflammation is reduced. So for healthy people who would take it, it would reduce the inflammation and or reduce oxidative. On them. You, your talk is the less stress life. So if, if you have no other thing, you're squeaky clean, you just take one to 200 milligram for no other reason other than an antioxidative protection.
[00:28:39] Dr. Barrie Tan: Mm-hmm. , well,
[00:28:39] Christa: oxidative stress is the cause of aging and wrinkles and cancer. So That's right. We all wanna reduce our oxidate, our, our bodies rust. For sure. Okay, so we've talked about some of the chronic things that Toco Tris are helping with, that you're getting to see. You answered this in a different way, but I wanna clarify it.
[00:28:58] Christa: Are toof harmful or just not as superior or substandard to tokos?
[00:29:05] Dr. Barrie Tan: I would, no, toof is not harmful if you accept for alpha toof. I, I have some guarded comment on my alpha toof, a gamma tora. We actually. Review a study. It just got published. If you're interested, after we finish, you send an email to Jen and then I'll send you the paper.
[00:29:25] Dr. Barrie Tan: It just got published like two, three weeks ago. They compare all the four Toro and all the four right now and find out the antioxidative things. Alpha Toro didn't work. Interestingly, and then among the Toro Delta and Gamma Toro work. And then on the Toco Trio series, the Toco Trio is more potent antioxidant than Toro, and the Delta and Gamma Toco trio are the best.
[00:29:52] Dr. Barrie Tan: So I let the audience know. Just remember the two Greek letter, Delta and Gamma. So Delta and Gamma Toro and Delta and Gamma Toko Tri, you know, Am I concerned about Alpha Toro? Hmm. Alpha Toro is the only vitamin E that have a transport protein. What does that mean? If you want a chemical to go through the cell wall most time, Compound like that, they go to passive diffusion.
[00:30:23] Dr. Barrie Tan: That means that you have concentration low and concentration high, and the concentration high side will go to the low side. It's just engineering. It's a diffusion. But if you have. A transport protein, you just have a right to pass it. You just drag it. And of all the vitamin E, only Alpha Toro has a transport protein.
[00:30:44] Dr. Barrie Tan: So if you take a lot of Alpha Toro, you have a lot of Alpha Toro stuff in our body. We have absolutely no idea what the Alpha Toro is there to do. So that's the, the main point. So, but with other toros and other, and all of the Toco tri, you know, no such known transport protein. So if you take them, they just passively diffuse and enter the cell wall like that.
[00:31:10] Dr. Barrie Tan: And in all our clinical study, crystal, we have never found any of the toco, trior have any, uh, side effects to the patients.
[00:31:20] Christa: Mm. Yes. That's always the best, right? No sign reduced cancer. Cancer survival improved and no
[00:31:28] Dr. Barrie Tan: and no. Yes. That's
[00:31:29] Christa: right. That's right. . So, okay, let's talk about journal.
[00:31:34] Dr. Barrie Tan: Journal, okay. Now this journal, jal and you asynchronized it, Gigi.
[00:31:40] Dr. Barrie Tan: If any of your audience wanted to follow through because I speak too fast, you go to American. River Nutrition or you type my name Barry is spelled b a r r i e, last name is Tan. You'll probably take you to my website and then you can download the white paper on Gigi. And on Toko Trino, we also make a third compound called uh, coq 10 ubi.
[00:32:07] Dr. Barrie Tan: But I'll just go back to Gigi. Gigi is an endogenous nutrient. It means our body makes Gigi. That's it. So because our body make Gigi, I don't even want to tell why you should take my Gigi like I'm pitching a sale because our body make Gigi. I will focus on this. If our body make Gigi, why don't Dr. 10 tell me why our body make gig.
[00:32:37] Dr. Barrie Tan: I'm doing that and if you got that, I'll be eternally grateful. Our body make GG for three known things that I know. And after you know that you are not going to go to sleep, you're gonna read about this until the sleep comes down. This compound is not known and if you study biochemistry textbook, you'll dig it.
[00:32:57] Dr. Barrie Tan: Why is not not known because American River is the first company in the world making it and why did I make it? I didn't make it. I'm really blessed. I stumble on this crazy plan, remove the color, and then I found to trio and after I removed the to I still find one or 2% something there. Am I blessed or what?
[00:33:20] Dr. Barrie Tan: So I was very curious. I look at it and I say my. This is a chemical compound called gg. What is this compound day in the plant to do? See, I started to do that and then another time I can send you a paper the plant make Gigi for something else. But because we are homo sapien, we are bipedal. We wanna know why we make Gigi.
[00:33:42] Dr. Barrie Tan: I don't care what plant make jui for, we wanna make, why we make Gigi. So I'm explaining to you why we make Gigi. Our body makes Gigi because. The synthesis of coq 10 in our body requires gg. Mm-hmm. That's it. So without Gigi, our body cannot make, uh, coq 10. So when you hear people say, oh, uh, coq 10 is UBI known because it's ubiquitous.
[00:34:07] Dr. Barrie Tan: I can tell you this. Coq 10 is ubiquitous because GG is ubi. Not coq 10. It's Gigi because it's required. Two, you probably heard a lot on the news and in the industry about vitamin k2, na, ferment, de soy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all these things. And then usually they're referred to MK seven. Mm-hmm.
[00:34:29] Dr. Barrie Tan: because it's vitamin K two and I'm here to tell you to change it. The important thing in our body, the man is not MK seven is. K four. Why? Mm? Because when we take vitamin K from green leafy vegetable, that's K one. The moment it enters our body, our body will look for a GG molecule. Cut off the tail of the vitamin K one and stitch the GG onto it.
[00:34:59] Dr. Barrie Tan: I just explained to you that is mk. Did you get that? So if you take vitamin K in your green leafy vegetable mm-hmm. , when you get into your body, you'll become MK four. The whole tail of K one is cut off and a new tail is stitch on it and new tail is Gigi and the, and needs to bacteria
[00:35:18] Christa: to do that though.
[00:35:19] Christa: Right. For, to
[00:35:20] Dr. Barrie Tan: confirm. No, it does not mean the bacteria thing is because the, the people in the industry have so inseminated your mind and inseminated everybody's mind that it must be in the gut and then they make it is true, but it is not. Entirely true. Anything fermented like fer, like cheese, like meat, like all these things.
[00:35:44] Dr. Barrie Tan: They have MK four and MK seven, like they're correct. If our gut make MK four and MK seven, let me say something that help our audience to be educated and not be sway away from this. When you go from the elementary canal, from the mouth to the anus. Mm-hmm. . And then after the. , and then you have ilium, geogen, and doum.
[00:36:06] Dr. Barrie Tan: Those small intestine is all where the, all the nutrients are absorbed, but when it get to the colon, that's the making of the poop. During that stage, that's where all these MK four and seven are made. So when they make this MK four and seven, the good news is it just the good bugs go up, the bad bug go down.
[00:36:25] Dr. Barrie Tan: But when they make the MK seven and four, they're not. I know of no physiology textbook. Let's say that if you make MK seven and MK four in the colon, anything is absorbed. Only water is absorbed. More water absorbed. Constipation, less water absorb, diarrhea. Anything else I don't know about? I don't, the colon doesn't absorb nutrient.
[00:36:51] Dr. Barrie Tan: It's only in the small intestines. So when these things are made, we don't, I don't know where it go. It just make good bugs, grow better, something like that. But MK four, however, it's simply synthesizing 25 to 30 organs in our. Kris, I'm telling you something that is Irv shaking. MK four is synthesized in 25 to 30 organs in our body.
[00:37:16] Dr. Barrie Tan: It is not to be understood as making in the gut that one is just making it maybe to protect the good bug and then it is pooped off. There's nothing to do with anything that I know, but the industry say that so that you believe MK four and MK seven is made in the body. When the mouth to the anus, I don't consider part of the body after it go to the systemic system that is part of the body.
[00:37:42] Dr. Barrie Tan: So let me go to the third one. So Gigi is required for the synthesis of coq 10, MK four. That should attract your attention that Gigi is important for not calcification in the artery, but calcification in the bone. All good. Making coq tend to give you energy the final. And I consider the most important one, about 40% of our body weight is muscle.
[00:38:08] Dr. Barrie Tan: We hope that as we grow older, it is still 40%, but all of us know you have older parents and so do I like that. They have sarcopenia, the loss of muscle mass, and the less they use the muscle, the more loss it would be muscle. Skeletal muscle protein. The synthesis of skeletal muscle protein requires gg.
[00:38:33] Dr. Barrie Tan: No gg. We cannot synthesize skeletal muscle and everybody know you have protein creatin, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then you build muscle. That is only part of the answer, but the making of protein required GG and GG is not even an amino acid. And. We cannot properly synthesize skeletal muscle. So we are now conducting study.
[00:38:58] Dr. Barrie Tan: We already have many, many animal study. I'm going to be thrilled. Hopefully God will give me long enough life. I continue to do a lot of research on Gigi. We are now doing a several study now on myopathy. People who take that thin drug had muscle problem. So now we are given people who taking statin drug, they are given Gigi to see if Gigi would.
[00:39:21] Dr. Barrie Tan: And block statin ability to cause myopathy. Mm-hmm. , if I could, that is a big deal. Mm-hmm. , because 40 million American are taking statin to lower cholesterol. And by the way, the, the way statin work is when they inhibit cholesterol synthesis. Cholesterol synthesis. It's at five carbon and then at 15 carbon, the body make five carbon at the time, 15 carbon, that's cholesterol making.
[00:39:48] Dr. Barrie Tan: And then at C 20 carbon, the C 20 is gg. So when you inhibit carbon at c5, it is obligatory. They will inhibit C 20. People don't care about C 20 until now. Now I explain this, C 20 is inhibited. That's why when people take statin drug cholesterol, Coq tend drop and muscle problems show up. The muscle problems show up, and the, and the coq tend drop is because GG drop.
[00:40:17] Dr. Barrie Tan: Mm-hmm. , that's it. So you got that , you have to interview me on the G piece is a whole thing by itself. Oh. It's gonna be
[00:40:25] Christa: a, I didn't even know it was gonna be a whole thing by itself, but I think, I think maybe we should take 'em back and put them on. Toco Triol and see if we can get their cholesterol to look good.
[00:40:35] Dr. Barrie Tan: Oh, that would be such a blessing. It would not be as dramatic as satin satin, lower people cholesterol, about 40% even better sometime. And Toco Triol typically half, but still it is not so severe and they have all kinds of side effects, you know. No side effects me. Make sure I send you the two papers that I have and then you can read.
[00:40:57] Dr. Barrie Tan: But until then, if the audience listening, please go to my website. You can download the GG papers that we wrote thoroughly to explain to people. And the Toco Trio piece is longer. If anything, you did not pick me up like that. I have put up in this book here and, and I did this as a label of love. Not even I wanted people to know.
[00:41:18] Dr. Barrie Tan: And if you give me another two years, I probably will. The truth about Gigi, but I have to wait. ,
[00:41:24] Christa: he was holding up a book called The Truth About Vitamin E, and you're giving it away at Dr. Barry tan.com/book, I think. Is that right? Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I have one more question about antioxidants because you know, you're in the antioxidant raw materials and, but you understand fully about how that looks and it goes into supplementation.
[00:41:43] Christa: One of the conversations with antioxidants is how do they not get oxidized in supplement form? And that's why a lot of stuff out there is. One of the reasons things are garbage right on the market is cause of oxidation. So how do we prevent oxidation in supplementation?
[00:41:58] Dr. Barrie Tan: I have been championing for the longest time, krisa I consider among the, uh, nutritional supplement that is very readily oxidizable is omega-3.
[00:42:09] Dr. Barrie Tan: Are dialing in our industry. D H a epa. Mm-hmm. . Very oxidizable. I'm trying to champion people. If you take an omega3 is a good thing. If you take oxidize omega3, it's really bad. And if you take a good omega3 into your cell water, the land all over the cell wall, and then your oxidative thing goes. Therefore, if you take Omega3, you should be taking Toco right now.
[00:42:33] Dr. Barrie Tan: Very simple. Mm-hmm. . But I've been trying to convince people when they make Omega3 to make fish oil soft gel. Please add, uh, Delta, go or Toco. Try not to protect it so far. I've only been able to convince one company, so it is my track record on This is bad. I'm not happy with this. I'm trying to convince them, but they don't buy my idea.
[00:42:56] Dr. Barrie Tan: They wanna put in other stuff to protect it, to design for health. Omega-3 designed for health multivitamin. Bless their heart. They decided to remove the Toro and they put Toco Triano to protect the fish oil and they use Toco Triol in their multivitamin instead of Alpha Toro. That's the on only two places I've been successful.
[00:43:22] Dr. Barrie Tan: However, having said that, so that I'm not beating this to death and say nothing good about Alpha Toro, I'll say this. Remember at the beginning I said, Christa, that Alpha Toro is known as a vitamin. because it bring the fetus to photo. Mm-hmm. , I'm not a mother, my wife. Was . So if anybody were to be expecting mom in a prenatal, you want the prenatal to contain Alpha Tora.
[00:43:51] Dr. Barrie Tan: If there would be a good place to do that, that would be the good place to do that. Mm. Because Alpha Tora is known to bring the fetus to full term. So if you were to advise your listener or your. If they're taking a prenatal, make sure that the prenatal have at least a hundred percent R D A of Alpha Toro, not Gamma Toro.
[00:44:13] Dr. Barrie Tan: Other thing that will be the loan exception in any other time. High Gamma, like you said, is good, and if they have chronic condition, a Toco Triol is best. And Delta Toko Trio is the king of the Toko. So I hope I give a balance to understanding of vitamin E and not defraud the audience in any one direction or, yeah,
[00:44:36] Christa: and just when we thought Alpha took Offal wasn't gonna make any, isn't gonna emerge on top.
[00:44:40] Christa: It totally redeems itself for, uh, for bringing term. Perfect. Well, I could have continued to talk. With you about this all day. So we'll come back sometime and we'll talk more about Gigi and debate all of that. People can find [email protected] or get your book The Truth About vitamin e barry tan.com/book.
[00:44:59] Christa: Anywhere else you want people
[00:45:01] Dr. Barrie Tan: to go? Yeah. Devo, thank you so much for, for listening on. Yeah,
[00:45:04] Christa: yeah. Thank you so much for coming today. Sharing and reviewing this podcast is the best way to help us succeed with our mission. To help integrate the best of East and West and empower you to raise the bar on your health story, just go to review this podcast.com/less stressed life.
[00:45:23] Christa: That's review this podcast.com. Less stressed life, and you'll be taken directly to a page where you can insert your review and hit post.
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