Immune Support with Immunoglobulins with McClain Haines

This week on The Less Stressed Life Podcast, I am joined by McClain Haines who is a microbiome nerd. 🤓 In this episode, we talk about one of my favorite topics, immunoglobulins! We are going to nerd out to what bovine serum IgG or antibodies are, what they do, how they can truly address the underlying cause of inflammation in the gut, who they can help, dosages, and more! 🙌

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• How is bovine serum immunoglobulins made?
• How is bovine serum immunoglobulins sourced & tested for quality?
• When did bovine serum immunoglobulins first come on the market?
• What is the difference between colostrum & bovine immunoglobulins?
• What is the best dosing of immunoglobulins?
• What antigens does ImmunoLin bind too?
• Who should supplement with ImmunoLin?

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ABOUT GUEST:
McClain Haines is the Head of Nutrition for Proliant Health and Biologicals, a bio-pharmaceutical company focusing on utilizing serum antibodies for use in prescription and dietary supplement products for digestive health, immune support, and sports nutrition. A curious and dedicated problem solver, “Mac” as he goes by, has been formulating new products and driving value in the pharmaceutical and dietary supplement space for 4 years. Prior to his time at Proliant Health and Biologicals, Mac aided the placement of many healthcare providers throughout the state of Iowa. When he is not formulating new products with his team, Mac loves spending time with his fiancé, playing sand volleyball, slow-pitch softball, and cheering on the Iowa State Cyclones.
Proliant Health & Biologicals is a Research & Development focused company. We continue to study and understand the full capabilities of this Serum IgG.

Find EnteraGam here
Find more on ImmunoLin here

WHERE TO FIND:
Website: https://phb1.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mcclain-haines-0357b514a/

WHERE TO FIND CHRISTA:
Website: https://www.christabiegler.com/
Instagram: @anti.inflammatory.nutritionist
Podcast Instagram: @lessstressedlife
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lessstressedlife
Leave a review, submit a questions for the podcast or take one of my quizzes here: https://www.christabiegler.com/links

NUTRITION PHILOSOPHY OF LESS STRESSED LIFE: 

• Over restriction is dead; if your practitioner is recommending this, they are stuck in 2010 and not evolving
• Whole food is soul food and fed is best
• Sustainable, synergistic nutrition is in (the opposite of whack-a-mole supplementation & supplement graveyards)
• You don’t have to figure it out alone
• Do your best and leave the rest

EPISODE SPONSOR:
A special thanks to Jigsaw Health for sponsoring this episode. Get a discount on any of their products, including my favorite, Pickleball Cocktail. Use the code lessstressed10. 

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TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00] McClain Haines: We keep the gut at homeostasis. We don't set off an inflammatory response. And if we do have a leaky gut by binding and removing what was causing that inflammation, you're giving the gut barrier a chance to turn over that new tissue to contract back together and rebuild a healthy gut. 

[00:00:15] Christa Biegler, RD: Stress is the inflammation that robs us of life, energy, and happiness. Our typical solutions for gut health and hormone balance have let a lot of us down. We're over medicated and underserved. At The Less Stressed Life, we're a community of health savvy women exploring solutions outside of our traditional Western medicine toolbox and training to raise the bar and change our stories.

[00:00:42] Christa Biegler, RD: Each week, our hope is that you leave our sessions inspired to learn, grow, and share these stories to raise the bar in your life and home. 

[00:00:59] Christa Biegler, RD: All right. Today in the Less Stressed life, I have McClain Haines. He's head of nutrition for ProLiant Health and Biologics, which is a biopharmaceutical company focusing on utilizing serum antibodies for the use of prescription and dietary supplements for digestive health. So I'm going to keep going in his bio, but first I was just telling him offline.

[00:01:18] Christa Biegler, RD: That's my real dream job would be the person who hosts how it's made. So this conversation is a little bit of a, how it's made on immunoglobulins, which I have this low key obsession with immunoglobulins. I hope we're going to be able to get nerdy. And this is the best part when you can go in behind the scenes of the Who's making the raw materials of the supplements that you're, people always ask me like, Oh, what do you recommend for this?

[00:01:41] Christa Biegler, RD: Or what brand or what supplement is good? And I always tell people that supplements are as good as the integrity of the brand and the company and the person who's putting it out there. But part of this is the raw material. So today we're talking raw materials. So he works with serum IgG.

[00:01:56] Christa Biegler, RD: So we're going to talk about serum IgGs, specifically the raw material immunolin. He goes by Mack. He's been helping with formulating new products and all the things in his company. So when he's not doing that, he's doing fun stuff in Iowa, traveling, playing sand volleyball. And he wrote in his notes, To make sure we reference them as a microbiome nerd.

[00:02:18] Christa Biegler, RD: So I giggled and smiled before I got on the phone with him today, because we can have a fun nerdy conversation, but very approachable. Welcome to the show. Mac. 

[00:02:27] McClain Haines: Krista, thank you for having me on for all the fun things to do in Iowa sand volleyball makes up about two months of the year, 

[00:02:33] Christa Biegler, RD: but I 

[00:02:35] McClain Haines: do really enjoy it enjoy what I do.

[00:02:37] McClain Haines: And just helping push the message and the understanding to the What serum IgG is, or what serum antibodies do, and how they can truly address the underlying cause of a lot of the inflammation within the gut. 

[00:02:50] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, so one of my favorite tools for sure, and a little backstory to just make things more human.

[00:02:55] Christa Biegler, RD: I was at a big dietician expo. Probably at least four years ago. Cause we have to measure all time by was it more than before 2020 or after 2020? So it's probably at least four years ago. And I met some of Mac's colleagues or maybe they are still colleagues or not. And there's always in business, like companies buying each other.

[00:03:17] Christa Biegler, RD: So we can talk about that if it makes sense. But essentially they were the guys behind Imulin. So Imulin, I'm going to give a little bit of how I perceive this and how I use this in practice, and then let's get into like how this is made. And then we can talk about, or we can go from the perspective of why this is a valuable nutraceutical that I use.

[00:03:34] Christa Biegler, RD: So big picture immunoglobulins, there are a couple ways to get this. And so we can talk about colostrum, which is a, it's colostrum. Not everyone knows what colostrum is. So we can talk about that. And then immunolent is the trademarked raw ingredients of bovine serum immunoglobulin. So essentially coming from Blood, right?

[00:03:57] Christa Biegler, RD: So can we talk about why you are the only manufacturer of this bovine blood and why? And for us, I, it honestly just depends on what we recommend. But if anyone has any issue with dairy, they really shouldn't have major issues with colostrum. But sometimes we'll just go pretty much no one ever reacts negatively when we use bovine serum immunoglobulin.

[00:04:17] Christa Biegler, RD: So will you talk about how this is made first? 

[00:04:22] McClain Haines: Absolutely. It all starts with the upcycle of that cow. With our partnership with the USDA prime society that top 1 percent of cattle that are going to manufacturing for that fanciest steakhouse in Chicago or down in Orlando those cattle that are going to manufacturing, essentially they'd take the meat and then that cow would just go to waste.

[00:04:43] McClain Haines: Essentially my group saw that as an opportunity that, there's a lot of amazing nutrients and a lot of different plasma fractions in that blood that can be utilized, anything from vaccines for lateral assays and also.

[00:04:54] McClain Haines: We take 

[00:04:55] McClain Haines: some serums, and we get that super rich IgG that's in immunolin. And since it's derived from serum it also makes it a dairy free alternative to colostrum and a higher IgG concentration. That higher IgG concentration is a main player and being more polyclonal just mean it binds to more antigens or bad bacteria and essentially neutralize and remove them before they can set off that harmful response in the gut.

[00:05:19] Christa Biegler, RD: did this all start? When did bovine serum immunoglobulins first come to market? When was this kind of discovered as, Hey, we can use this piece of bovine blood for this. 

[00:05:33] McClain Haines: I'm going to take you way back here, Krista. This initially was spray dried plasma on hog feet in the 1980s. It was actually to help lower the mortality rate.

[00:05:43] McClain Haines: For litter and also lower the spontaneous rate of abortion and pigs. And once they started seeing success by putting spray dry plasma on their feed and helping them again, produce a bigger letter, we were growing economy more people on this earth than ever. We knew we had to increase the food supply. As they dove into the science of.

[00:06:03] McClain Haines: Why were they not losing as much that 50 percent of the litter? Why are they having everyone in the litter? What in that plasma is causing that response? What's lowering that constant inflammation and leading to a higher litter count. And that's where the human clinical trial started around 2001. We had some amazing new data come out with patients with IBS, IBD.

[00:06:23] McClain Haines: And showcasing safety and effectiveness

[00:06:25] McClain Haines: to launch this as a prescription medical food in 2013. That prescription medical food is still being utilized by gastroenterologists nationwide for the dietary management of IBS, IBD and HIV neuropathy. But all that product is five grams of immunolin. So if you had a two and a half gram product at home and you took two scoops, essentially you're getting the medical food dosing to address maybe your IBS symptoms or your IBD symptoms.

[00:06:50] Christa Biegler, RD: Do you think this is still being used in pork production? 

[00:06:53] McClain Haines: the prescription medical food? 

[00:06:55] Christa Biegler, RD: The IGGs, which is where it all started in the 80s. Do you think they're still using it? As a dried plasma 

[00:07:01] McClain Haines: or absolutely that would most likely be coming from our sister company, APC. It's still being added into anything from canine equine, cat feed, so many different areas that spray dry plasma is still being utilized.

[00:07:15] Christa Biegler, RD: Is that what it would say on a label by chance? If someone was ever looking at, would you ever see that on a food label for animals? 

[00:07:22] McClain Haines: Yep. Absolutely. 

[00:07:25] Christa Biegler, RD: Cool. So it's, I don't know if it's considered a baby. I feel like it's not really a baby, 2001 to 2013 when it hit the market. So it was first a prescription, five grams, right?

[00:07:35] Christa Biegler, RD: Makes sense. Cause that's where the money is to bring something to market. So what was the shift where it became more over the counter or a supplement based where people could get it without a prescription? 

[00:07:47] McClain Haines: Yeah, the shift really was being showcased in our data. We were seeing that new healthy tissue within the gut barrier when constantly supplementing with this product for five grams a day usually takes between 21 to 24 days to turn over that new healthy gut barrier and essentially contract back together.

[00:08:05] McClain Haines: You didn't need to take essentially that five grams of product. The rest of your life, there was the opportunity for these patients to one save cost of the product, but also titrate down instead of needing that five grams a day, they could titrate down from two and a half grams to one gram a day and still feel the optimal benefits and not have those common symptoms like diarrhea, bloating, and flatulence.

[00:08:27] McClain Haines: So we went to the FDA in 2018 and explained, Hey, look, All this product is a protein isolate that's super rich in IgG. There's no reason everyone in the world can't take this product. Since 2018, it has been available at a two and a half gram and one gram dosing. And it's truly again, changing the way we manage gut barrier health.

[00:08:47] McClain Haines: If we can help the most chronically Crohn's and ulcerative colitis, We know we can help Mima, who maybe ate something bad on her trip to Cancun. 

[00:08:57] Christa Biegler, RD: What are you from the South now? I thought we were from the North. Anyway, it just makes me laugh. You just brought up something. I had no idea that was that recent because my practice goes.

[00:09:09] Christa Biegler, RD: Much before 2018. And I think I met Kron Krishnan, who's a microbiologist past microbiologist for microbiome labs. They actually sold to a big company out of Europe last year, a year before. I'm not sure when it was. It all is a blur. And but I feel like I interviewed him in 2017. It may have been 2018.

[00:09:26] Christa Biegler, RD: That was back when he had his flagship product, which was his probiotic, which is how he created that company. And then they added many other things. So big picture and. As a preface, no one sponsored this episode. I'm just a curious person. And this episode doesn't get to every question I have about lobby.

[00:09:43] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. So we'll talk about that in a minute, but there are many labels. There are many products that have this raw ingredient in them, including microbiome labs, mega IgG, 2000 SBI protect. I cannot remember the rest of them, but there's. At least three that are really commonly recommended. I feel like orthomoleculars was around before microbiome labs.

[00:10:02] Christa Biegler, RD: Does that sound right to you? How long have you been with the company? 

[00:10:04] McClain Haines: I've been with the company since 2019. 

[00:10:06] Christa Biegler, RD: Okay. Got it. So do you know which one was first? 

[00:10:09] McClain Haines: The first product to hit the market would have been with orthomolecular SBI protect. And soon again followed everyone else once they understood the science.

[00:10:17] McClain Haines: I love that you pointed out Quran there. Quran really saw the science behind this product and how it works differently than a lot of other products we use to manage gut and immune health while your prebiotics and probiotics essentially are feeding good bacteria. A lot of things were targeting the underlying cause that bad bacteria that causes inflammation.

[00:10:37] McClain Haines: And he saw this as an amazing pipeline and amazing product to help bind and remove that bad bacteria, feed in the good bacteria and essentially sandwich the problem in there. 

[00:10:47] Christa Biegler, RD: It's all about the conversation of metabolic endotoxemia, a bad bacteria having all this garbage. So Immunoglobulins or IgGs or bovine serum IgGs are a very gentle binding action.

[00:11:00] Christa Biegler, RD: So if people are dealing with the most common area, I deal with talk. I would deal with the toxic burden coming off of pathogens, bacteria, fungus, et cetera. But especially with mycotoxins, which are a mold biotoxin, people tend to need something like charcoal to bind that up. But immunoglobulins could be a really gentle version of a binder.

[00:11:18] Christa Biegler, RD: Actually you set something off. Off air about how this bovine immunoglobulin product is not systemic and stays in the gut. And my question is, how do you know that? Let's talk about that a little bit. 

[00:11:31] McClain Haines: Yeah. That would come back to a digestibility study where we wanted to showcase that this is non systemic.

[00:11:38] McClain Haines: Again, we're not trying to elevate the IgG, IgE, IgM levels in the blood because that can lead to a handful of other areas. So in that digestibility study, we're just looking at and measuring the blood levels when supplementing with this product. So in that study, it's showcasing there is no elevation of these immunoglobulin levels in the blood, but there was an also an aha moment in that study that actually led us to launch IBD trials.

[00:12:02] McClain Haines: When we were measuring these patients stools, we were also seeing bound antigens. Or bound bad bacteria that could only be found in a patient's colon. So it's just showcasing this isn't just working within the stomach or to the small intestine. The IgG does survive throughout the entire GI tract, binding, neutralizing, and removing those pathogens that cause.

[00:12:24] McClain Haines: That inflammation within the gut. So once we found those bound antigens that can only be found in the colon, it was a big aha moment for us to launch a lot of IBD data and a lot of IBD trials. 

[00:12:35] Christa Biegler, RD: Okay. So I want to just underline something that you said that may not be clear to a listener. Possibly.

[00:12:40] Christa Biegler, RD: You don't want this to be a systemic product that's stimulating the immune system, even though that term or that phrase gets thrown around a lot. We're not really looking to stimulate the immune system all the time. In autoimmunity, the immune system is being. It elevated stimulated. It's about immune homeostasis and resilience from if you get an attack coming in, or if you get inflammation coming in, can it bounce back?

[00:13:04] Christa Biegler, RD: That's how I think of it. And there are some huge thought leaders in the functional medicine space that are really rebounding on this discussion. Especially Jeff Bland. I'd gone to an all day seminar with Jeff Bland talking about, we're not trying to boost the immune system, which is just a misnomer.

[00:13:18] Christa Biegler, RD: It's a catchphrase. It's really, we're trying to have immune homeostasis. 

[00:13:22] McClain Haines: Yes. 

[00:13:22] Christa Biegler, RD: So, I'm just thinking through because I don't do this research. I'm just thinking about, I wonder if in this study, they're measuring somehow GI all the way through. And then they're also looking at maybe blood data to see if anything is elevated there.

[00:13:37] Christa Biegler, RD: Do you know anything about how they measure this? How they looked at it? 

[00:13:41] McClain Haines: Yeah, in measuring those patients blood levels. I mentioned that in the study just to showcase there is no immune reaction. There is no elevation of immunoglobulins in the blood, even though you're supplementing with immunoglobulins that being non systemic.

[00:13:55] McClain Haines: And the reason we want it to be non systemic is. Those antigens that if you did have a leaky gut and therefore would slip through and cause an immune reaction, we're trying to stop that from happening, but we're not trying to kill that bad bacteria. We're trying to buy, neutralize and remove it like an antibody does.

[00:14:12] McClain Haines: So it can't set off that response. And essentially the body's natural reaction again is to turn over that new tissue to contract, help rebuild that gut barrier wall. And essentially 

[00:14:23] McClain Haines: We want the product to be non systemic because we don't want to cause an immune response.

[00:14:28] McClain Haines: That non systemic study was to make sure that's the case to make sure when we supplement with immunoglobulins, it's not elevating the immunoglobulin levels in our blood. So as we bind, neutralize, and remove, Those antigens are that bad bacteria that then would cause an inflammatory response by removing them.

[00:14:47] McClain Haines: We keep the gut at homeostasis. We don't set off an inflammatory response. And if we do have a leaky gut, By finding and removing what was causing that inflammation, you're giving the gut barrier a chance to turn over that new tissue to contract back together and rebuild a healthy gut. And essentially, once we do that, that also aids in an uptake of nutrients like water, protein, and everything that helps us live a healthier, happier life.

[00:15:12] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, I think something that you said earlier that I want to touch on is that this turnover, this improvement happens, around that three week mark ish. And so I think that this is an important underlining point because sometimes people say, can I just go on this and stay on it forever? I don't think there's any harm in going on.

[00:15:33] Christa Biegler, RD: This particular product, there are there. I do have concerns about going on some products many products forever, to be honest, but this product, there's not really a concern, but to me, I don't think I like to see, and I think this is hopefully really welcomed by certain people who have just been on supplements.

[00:15:50] Christa Biegler, RD: Anytime someone's been on a supplement, just ongoing for years. My question is, do you know how you feel on it? Do you know how you feel off of it? And I think it's nice to see what we've learned. Yeah. But you, do you have any feelings about that? Because so often I will say, and I guess you're the raw materials.

[00:16:07] Christa Biegler, RD: I feel like you're somewhat less of a salesman than if I had a supplement company directly on here. Cause my thought is there's no point on just being on this perpetually forever. It's cycled in. So just curious if you have differing thoughts there. 

[00:16:20] McClain Haines: Yeah, absolutely. I would say for, the healthy age population, like we were talking about me, ma, who maybe ran into some type of food poisoning or something she came across while she was traveling.

[00:16:31] McClain Haines: This is a product that maybe a month, two months of taking the supplement, it's maybe going to relieve, get rid of that antigen that was causing the response and help the gut barrier rebuild itself. So maybe for her, it is a one to two month treatment. Now we know for our chronically inflamed population, those that maybe have Crohn's, ultracolitis, or IBS symptoms, they tend to stay on the product a little bit longer.

[00:16:55] McClain Haines: I know we've been actually managing one lady who's been taking this product since 2013, where she started out at 20 grams a day 

[00:17:02] Christa Biegler, RD: and 

[00:17:03] McClain Haines: the whole idea was the more you take of the product, the more antibodies will bind antigens. So after that first year, she could go from 20 grams to 10 grams to five grams.

[00:17:16] McClain Haines: And today when she still calls us, she's taking a half a gram every other day, just showcasing maybe this is helping address what she keeps coming in contact with, but it's her body's ultimate fight or flight. It is SEAL Team 6. It is running through her GI tract, binding and removing an antigen so it can't set off a potential response and get her back to having those symptoms.

[00:17:40] McClain Haines: So for some, it is a lifestyle. But again, if we rebuild that gut barrier, essentially these people getting back to a healthier, happier life. It doesn't have to be a lifestyle. 

[00:17:49] Christa Biegler, RD: And it's there's different ways to do everything. To be honest, people don't have to use immunolin to rebuild gut barrier.

[00:17:56] Christa Biegler, RD: There are other things. There are things that are creating that dysfunction in their immune barrier. But if you hear this and you think you've had long term gut issues, I will just tell you, A really powerful tool. And I always used to joke I would like to, if I'm on a deserted island and I can only bring five things, I'd like this, maybe I'm not really exposed to things, but you brought up a good point that if a grandma's traveling and she picks up a pathogenic bacteria, this is like the literally perfect thing in an acute immune or a food poisoning type situation, this is literally stimulating or maybe stimulating is the wrong word, supporting the mechanisms that fight off that pathogenic bacteria.

[00:18:33] Christa Biegler, RD: Organism. That's how I consider it. That's how I was taught it. And this is, and I would say that human behavior is that we forget to do things when we're sick or down and out. And this is the thing I use during illness or down and out or if you can use it before you're down and out, it's a huge helper for not getting sick or reducing long term ill or reducing colds, cold duration, et cetera.

[00:18:57] Christa Biegler, RD: I've seen this work. Yeah. Many times. 

[00:18:59] McClain Haines: And to speak on like traveling. So personally for myself, I do take two and a half grams of this product every day. Again, just to limit any type of bacteria or any type of pathogen that I come in contact with that could cause a bad response. I would just like to address it head on.

[00:19:15] McClain Haines: Now when I travel, I actually do take two scoops of two and a half. Times a day, just because I'm meeting new people, I'm eating new foods, maybe pathogens I've never ran across. And I would just like to use again, my seal team six here, my serum IgG to bind, neutralize, and remove any of those inflammatory pathogens before they can set off a response. 

[00:19:36] Christa Biegler, RD: Do you get a good deal on it? 

[00:19:37] McClain Haines: I do get a good deal on it. Essentially I can head up to the plant and just get a scoop myself. 

[00:19:41] Christa Biegler, RD: I just teasing on purpose, of course. So I have many more questions, but one thing I want to make sure we address here. We were talking about how. They found that this bovine serum stayed within the gut and did not become systemic.

[00:19:57] Christa Biegler, RD: And that was the kind of plea to the FDA. How can we get this to be coming over the counter product off air? I'm just going to give this a little bit of lip service. Something I'm still interested in because of. People I know with autoimmune conditions and so with, when people have autoimmune conditions, a common intervention is IV or intravenous immunoglobulin therapy.

[00:20:20] Christa Biegler, RD: I have a a prescription insert next to me and Mac and I were talking offline about this is under somewhat of the same umbrella, but it's different. So we're talking here about bovine derived serum, immunoglobulins and how they have the kind of the, they have the market on this. I hope they're doing a good job.

[00:20:36] Christa Biegler, RD: And then the immunoglobulin prescription product that I'm looking at is a human derived immunoglobulin, and that is meant to be systemic. We think to stimulate immune function for those people, I know very little about that. And I want to know much more about how it's derived, where it comes from.

[00:20:56] Christa Biegler, RD: And I have an understanding that it's even, like many things it's like on the surface, it's called. IV immunoglobulin, but underneath the surface it can vary. And so I know that the sources of this have changed and the prescription sources. So anyway, just an interesting conversation. If anyone knows any immunologist who can speak about human derived IgGs, please reach out to me.

[00:21:17] Christa Biegler, RD: Back to Bob, I know for now and ones that stay in the gut. So a couple things, I can't hold myself back from this question. You reminded me that I heard some murmurings that Canada was making immunoglobulins illegal. 

[00:21:32] McClain Haines: Canada was making immunoglobulins illegal. 

[00:21:34] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. Like you couldn't buy these over the counter and Canada.

[00:21:38] McClain Haines: Yep. So in health Canada right now unlike the United States, the word immunoglobulin up there is known as a drug. While here it's known as a supplement or you can supplement with the product. So I know there's things moving around right now up in Canada of the best way to position the ingredient because it is an immunoglobulin, but if it's backed by over 45 human clinical trials, all focused on the microbiome on safety and efficacy.

[00:22:02] McClain Haines: There's no reason this shouldn't be approved everywhere around the world. So with Canada, I think there's just more time to come that if they are going to keep that immunoglobulin as a drug, or if there's a way to administer it up there as a protein, because it is a protein isolate. Essentially, when you take two grams of this product, you're getting two grams of protein.

[00:22:21] McClain Haines: You're just getting the added benefit of that IgG in there as well. That's going to bind and remove that bad bacteria. 

[00:22:26] Christa Biegler, RD: Did they just make a ruling on that last year that kind of halted sales? Do you know? The backend, 

[00:22:32] McClain Haines: not that I know much of that might be a better question for Brian. 

[00:22:36] McClain Haines: My 

[00:22:37] McClain Haines: director or my VP of sales internationally.

[00:22:39] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, that's no problem. It's just, sometimes you don't know that's happening and then you encounter it and you think how in the world could this be not approved in that place? Now we were talking a little bit about dosing, and I think this will come into play when we talk about colostrum versus bovine.

[00:22:55] Christa Biegler, RD: So you have mentioned that five grams is a medical food and I'm just thinking out loud right now, because when I pull classrooms off the shelf, there's five grams, usually of weight in those scoops when you are pulling one of these other common supplements off the shelf, is there just like one gram per scoop?

[00:23:13] Christa Biegler, RD: How much is a normal recommendation from the supplement companies that sell your raw material? 

[00:23:19] Christa Biegler, RD: Probably one of the most underrated nutrients I use in practice is potassium. Low potassium can be a huge factor in energy, relapsing gut issues, thyroid function, and even regulating blood pressure. Now your blood test for potassium will look normal most of the time, otherwise you'd feel faint and maybe like you're going to pass out.

[00:23:38] Christa Biegler, RD: But your tissue levels of potassium will decline With an increase of the stress hormone, cortisol big picture. I find it's just really hard for humans to get enough food based potassium in their diet, unless they live in a tropical place. And I'm usually recommending my clients get at least 4, 000 milligrams of food based potassium per day.

[00:23:58] Christa Biegler, RD: That's why I really commonly recommend Jigsaw's Pickleball Cocktail to help my clients. It's one of the only electrolyte products on the market with a hefty dose of potassium at 800 mg per scoop, when most electrolyte products only have about 200 mg. Making it really hard to reach those high doses of food based potassium I recommend per day.

[00:24:20] Christa Biegler, RD: Plus, it's automatically the best choice if my client is dealing with swelling, which can be related to imbalances of sodium and potassium in the tissue. I'm a potassium evangelist, and Jigsaw's Pickleball Cocktail is one of my most used tools of the trade. You can get a discount on any of jigsaw's amazing products, including [email protected] with the code less stressed.

[00:24:44] Christa Biegler, RD: 10. That's three S's, less stressed, 10.

[00:24:50] McClain Haines: Yeah, I would say the standard dosing everyone is leaning towards is two and two and a half grams just because it gives you the option. If you are a practitioner out there and you're utilizing this for someone who previously had IBS symptoms or IBD, Crohn's and Ulcerative Colitis, it's great to have the option to just take that extra scoop for a month to help relieve and remove all those pathogens and get them back to living better.

[00:25:13] McClain Haines: But we do have clinical efficacious data, even at one gram it up that it is effective a trial we did at the University of North Texas in a healthy age population where we took college kids and we gave them a high fat diet, which was 2 slices of tombstone pizza. Didn't have too many of them that said no to that.

[00:25:32] McClain Haines: And then we measured their blood levels to showcase what the high fat diet does in your blood. So we measured LPS, a common inflammatory pathogen that causes a lot of response leading to leaky gut, dietary endotoxemia, and a lot of other issues. And once they take that high fat diet, LPS in their blood skyrockets.

[00:25:51] McClain Haines: We then have them supplement with immunolin, SBI. For 45 consecutive days at one gram, two grams and four grams a day. We then gave them that high fat diet on day 45, measured their blood levels in a showcase LPS barely even grew. So as we continuously supplement with this product, we bind and remove antigens like LPS, but we also bind H pylori, candida albicans.

[00:26:19] McClain Haines: Gliadin, common indicator for gluten sensitivity. As we continuously bind and remove those pathogens, it leads to a stronger turnover of healthy tissue, a quicker turnaround, and therefore limiting opportunity of any pathogen causing a response. 

[00:26:35] McClain Haines: That leads to a healthier gut barrier. 

[00:26:37] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, you're reducing the toxic burden or the metabolic or the gut mediated toxic burden that, and I think that's why people need different doses.

[00:26:46] Christa Biegler, RD: It's if you've got a disease process that like IBD or Crohn's and colitis, your overall mess in your gut is more significant. Then someone that doesn't have that diagnosis, obviously, I actually saw that research presented by Quran at a conference. Now that I think I did not know that there was one, two and four gram interventions.

[00:27:05] Christa Biegler, RD: I don't remember that piece, but I do college kids in the high fat diet and the reduction of them, the toxic burden load after people were on it, it's like they're overall reducing their toxic burden load. So then when they're eating a bunch of tombstone pizza, it's not as offensive to the body. And I think that's, I have this statement I say to clients a lot, like just be more supportive than aggravating. You'll stay on the right side of the teeter totter, like it's only go overboard on our aggravation where things really overflow and create kind of these chronic long standing things. And so just be more supportive than aggravating what you're saying.

[00:27:40] Christa Biegler, RD: A little more support, like if you know you're doing, and that's my thought. It's if you understand the pieces, you can do a lot of things. Like you don't have to live this immaculate life where you've never eaten a slice of pizza. That's absolutely not. Necessary technically, depending on how you want to live.

[00:27:58] Christa Biegler, RD: Everyone can do whatever they want, but I just like everything. I like all that. It's always 

[00:28:02] McClain Haines: good in proportions. I understand why people are leaning towards these elimination diets. It's eliminating certain foods that their body, they figure out, Oh, this is causing a negative response here, or this is causing a negative response here.

[00:28:15] McClain Haines: And if you had a rock in your shoe, you wouldn't take a ton of Tylenol to get rid of the pain. You just take off your shoe, get the rock out of there and you'd be on your way. That's what we're trying to do here with Immunolin. We're trying to address those antigens that cause that response.

[00:28:28] McClain Haines: Therefore, later on, we don't get that harmful symptom. 

[00:28:32] Christa Biegler, RD: And just to reiterate what you already said, just to make it ultra, ultra clear, when you increase LPS in the blood, you're improving, you're increasing the fishnet tight effect on the gut. And when you have the fishnet tights, instead of the nylons, you have these larger proteins going through, which cause the food sensitivities.

[00:28:49] Christa Biegler, RD: And so my whole shtick is, Let's not avoid foods forever because most people like ultimately that's not a long game approach at all. And it's a little archaic, to be honest, 10, 15. We had a 

[00:28:59] McClain Haines: doctor that this might've been the best one of the better ways I've heard this explained, you're talking about fish nets.

[00:29:06] McClain Haines: He explained it like throwing a golf ball through a volleyball net. You throw it against that volleyball net. It's going to slip through every time. Now what antibodies do is they bind, increase the overall size Of that golf ball and make it more of a volleyball. So when it's thrown against that volleyball net, it bounces right back and can't cause that response.

[00:29:25] Christa Biegler, RD: Interesting analogies. 

[00:29:27] McClain Haines: That was a heck of an analogy there. 

[00:29:29] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. Cool. Alright, let's circle back to the difference between colostrum and bovine immunoglobulins. 

[00:29:35] McClain Haines: Yep. So colostrum IgG, it's going to be the same mechanism of action essentially. Bind and remove the bad guys. Colostrum is going to be derived from the mother's milk or that cow's milk and in there it's going to have that IgG concentration like immunolin.

[00:29:52] McClain Haines: The difference between the two is we derive ours from the plasma instead of the milk. And there's a reasoning behind that. When you derive from the plasma, you get a higher IgG concentration that binds to more, and it's a much more closed loop process that we also get a super clean protein isolate back to IgG concentration.

[00:30:11] McClain Haines: So much cleaner, much higher IgG concentration. And when it comes to clinical data, it's showcased to bind over 46 different types of antigens that are most commonly found within the gut. 

[00:30:24] Christa Biegler, RD: So when you are making this raw material, which is trademarked by the name amulin, is there any testing after the creation or during the creation of the raw material?

[00:30:35] Christa Biegler, RD: That's interesting. Let me give you an example. So often when we're talking about supplements, we're looking for cross contamination for different things. Anytime you're dealing with anything, cattle, whatever you would almost think that the product could vary. Maybe depending on the sourcing or what's going on with that animal.

[00:30:53] Christa Biegler, RD: So is there any way, how do you create such a consistent product? How do you, is there any testing that's done at the end that always gets done? Is there any possibility that there's anything, do you ever, is there a reason you'd throw something out? 

[00:31:08] McClain Haines: Yeah. So we test the product six separate times from the day it's extracted.

[00:31:14] McClain Haines: So from the time at the manufacturing site. Until it is transported to our manufacturing site until we start to centrifuge that plasma and pull out that it's measured 6 separate times to make sure there's no antibiotics, no hormones, no pesticides. No soy, no dairy, all these different areas. We make sure none of that is in the product and that we've pushed a consistent clean product every time you take that IgG supplement.

[00:31:41] Christa Biegler, RD: So earlier we were talking about how this all started in prescription and you didn't really, I don't think mention it, but apparently the prescription name might be EnteraGam. Is that what you said?

[00:31:51] McClain Haines: EnteraGam. 

[00:31:51] McClain Haines: Yep. 

[00:31:52] Christa Biegler, RD: Enteragam. I am not a GI doctor, so I'm not, I don't have prescribing capabilities.

[00:31:57] Christa Biegler, RD: I haven't ever had a client come in to me on a Terragam that I know of. Are there other names for this? And do you know? I'm just curious because I like to know these things. Yeah. So here in the 

[00:32:08] Christa Biegler, RD: States, it would be listed as an Terragam. Again, it's utilized by gastroenterologists nationwide. But maybe not utilized by your registered dietitian, who can just get the same thing and supplement for him in that bottle.

[00:32:20] Christa Biegler, RD: Internationally, there would be another product. It's the exact same ingredient. It's called Nutri Gammix. 

[00:32:26] Christa Biegler, RD: And it's 

[00:32:26] McClain Haines: approved national it's approved in other countries. 

[00:32:29] Christa Biegler, RD: Do you know by chance what the cost is of the prescription version? 

[00:32:35] McClain Haines: Yeah. Yeah. For the prescription version, you're looking at about one 15 for 30 day supply at five grams a day.

[00:32:42] McClain Haines: So 30 sachets a gram a day. 

[00:32:44] Christa Biegler, RD: That's not bad. Impressive. That's good. I was expecting it to be much more inflated. If anyone's on EnteraGam, let me know if that's what your insurance is getting billed, 115, or if it's getting billed like 1000. I feel like sometimes happens. I'm just always curious about what actually happens behind the scenes.

[00:33:02] McClain Haines: So the issue with medical foods around 2017 big pharma made it a mission for medical foods, not to be covered well by insurance. So that's where we took insurance completely out. Of the issue. We have translocated all of our business to one mail order pharmacy called transition pharmacy services, where they ship from that facility and they can guarantee that one 15 price.

[00:33:24] McClain Haines: So you're not going to get this. prescription sent to your CVS or Walgreens, you're going to get it mail order from TPS. And you can also visit the EnteraGam. com page and order this product directly online. 

[00:33:38] Christa Biegler, RD: Oh, you don't need a prescription. Interesting. Very interesting. I was just thinking like it probably doesn't as reach as many people as it could.

[00:33:46] Christa Biegler, RD: In my opinion, that would just be a guess I would have. Do you focus, where do you think that At the parent company that you work for, where do you think you guys focus your efforts? A little bit of everywhere. Pharmaceutical supplement. Are you trying to get into more white labeling? What, like what's going on behind the scenes?

[00:34:04] McClain Haines: I would say with EnteraGam on that kind of pharmaceutical side we know it's run its course and it's a consistent great product. But we need to utilize the great minds like Karan Krishnan to truly push the message of immunolin and how it truly is changing the way we manage gut health. I say that a lot, but it takes those maybe influencer types or those that we look up to in the market to utilize a product.

[00:34:30] McClain Haines: I would say the nutrition side, dietary supplements has been a huge focus for us the past three years. We've seen consistent growth and the education and the understanding of how immunolin works has really grown on that side. 

[00:34:43] Christa Biegler, RD: If immunolins ever looking to sponsor a podcast, I'm here to make jokes about that.

[00:34:47] McClain Haines: So I can I can ask Mr. 

[00:34:50] Christa Biegler, RD: It sounds good. All so today we talked a little bit about classroom versus IDGs. We talked about dosing. We talked about common dosing in the supplements at that. I think it was one to two ish, two grams per scoop. I think dosing is always. Relevant, important. I personally don't really think you can overdo immunoglobulin dosing.

[00:35:08] Christa Biegler, RD: It's just not an issue to me. Maybe it's just a 

[00:35:12] McClain Haines: protein. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:35:13] Christa Biegler, RD: Maybe your school would move for a lot of people. That's really good for them. Not the end of the world. We talked to just a little bit about that behind the scenes, how it's made, how it's tested. Yeah. We talked about how it stays in the gut and how that was discovered.

[00:35:26] Christa Biegler, RD: We talked about some of the studies and the antibodies. It's impacting. Anything else you think we missed today in our conversation about immuno maybe 

[00:35:34] McClain Haines: some exciting 

[00:35:35] McClain Haines: new data Yeah. Coming out. Go for it. You mentioned mycotoxins. 

[00:35:39] McClain Haines: With it being immunoglobulin, we actually don't know the full capabilities of all the different pathogens and antigens it binds.

[00:35:45] McClain Haines: So there could be some pathogens that down the road, we're going to want to test because they're more abundant. One of those was a mycotoxin or a carcinogenic aflatoxin where we showcase the ability to bind to two known carcinogenic aflatoxins that can be found in our food. 

[00:36:00] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, really commonly found in our food.

[00:36:02] Christa Biegler, RD: Unfortunately, that's what I see on testing. I really waffle on how much mycotoxin testing I do. But when I do, you'd be surprised at how significant the food based mycotoxins are. And then there's a, probably a percentage of the population that the numbers here are.

[00:36:22] Christa Biegler, RD: I'm not going to give numbers, but there's always a percentage of the population that's not going to metabolize these things very well. So there are going to be, that's why it's going to affect someone more than others. And so I have a lot of feelings about education around that topic, but it's, in general, our life is not toxin free.

[00:36:39] Christa Biegler, RD: It never will be. So I like the mechanism of action for bovine amino globulins. They've been really helpful. I had no idea that they were only in supplements since 2018. So I would say I've been on top of it since the beginning. We've been using them since the beginning of time with wonderful success dosing, however, I feel like it.

[00:36:57] Christa Biegler, RD: Sometimes using lab data to support how much it needs to be supported. Sometimes not, but it's definitely something that's a huge part of our toolbox all the time. So thanks for letting me grill you on some of that behind the scenes stuff. And again, if anyone is listening, who knows any immunologists who know anything about systemic.

[00:37:14] Christa Biegler, RD: Immunoglobulins. I'm here for that conversation too. I love the nerdy conversations. Mac, thank you for coming on today and for getting a little bit nerdy with me. I can tell that you love, I can tell that you love your job. Is there a special story on how you got this job or did you have gut health issues or is there any, do you have any personal hearts, heart pulling story for us that you want to share before we wrap?

[00:37:35] McClain Haines: I would say when I was attending college I always had a a drive to work in an agricultural setting. Knowing that this company basically upcycles any type of animal there is in the market, it just seemed like the perfect fit for me. And they're doing it all for the right reason. We're not doing this to push These broad spectrum antibiotics, that's going to deteriorate with everything within the GI tract.

[00:38:01] McClain Haines: What you have here is a product that just targets the bad stuff, binds it up and removes it. So then our body can naturally turn over that new tissue, like I've mentioned, and we can all get back to living a healthier, happier life. So a reason I love it is I know I'm doing everything for the right reason.

[00:38:16] McClain Haines: This is truly helping people get back to living better and helping relieve all their symptoms. 

[00:38:22] Christa Biegler, RD: Thanks so much for coming on today. And where can people find, you're a, you're not of, a retail facing company, but if people are curious about this topic, is there any place that they should go to learn more?

[00:38:32] McClain Haines: Yeah, I would visit phb1. com, our company's website. You can get a better understanding of all the other raw materials we provide in the market. And specifically dive in on some amazing clinical work on immunolin and some upcoming exciting new COVID 19 data. 

[00:38:50] Christa Biegler, RD: Thanks so much for coming on today.

[00:38:51] McClain Haines: Thanks, Krista.

[00:38:52] Christa Biegler, RD: Sharing and reviewing this podcast is the best way to help us succeed with our mission to help integrate the best of East and West and empower you to raise the bar on your health story. Just go to review this podcast. com forward slash less stressed life. That's review this podcast. com forward slash less stressed life.

[00:39:13] Christa Biegler, RD: And you'll be taken directly to a page where you can insert your review and hit post.