From the Archives: How to Be a Flavor Scientist with Olivia Wagner, RDN, IFNCP

Podcast cover art featuring Christa Biegler and Olivia Wagner: Episode 462 From the Archives: How to Be a Flavor Scientist with Olivia Wagner, RDN, IFNCP

The Less Stressed Life turns 10 next year🤯, and as I started looking back through some of the earliest episodes, I realized there were a few conversations I wanted to bring back because they're just as relevant today as when they were first recorded. This week, we're revisiting Episode 47 from 2019 with functional dietitian Olivia Wagner, whose practical approach to food as medicine continues to inspire how we think about nourishing our bodies.

In this episode, we explore how every bite of food provides information to the body, why becoming a "nutrient seeker" can transform the way you think about healthy eating, and simple strategies for building meals that are both nourishing and delicious. We also discuss practical meal prep techniques, easy ways to increase the variety of plants on your plate, creative tips for helping the whole family enjoy more nutrient-dense foods, and how small, consistent changes can have a lasting impact on your health.

Bonus Resource: Download the free Food as Medicine Checklist created for this episode, packed with simple, practical ways to put these nutrition strategies into action.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

Food as information and the food-as-medicine approach
How to become a "nutrient seeker"
Simple ways to build colorful, nutrient-dense meals
Practical meal prep and batch cooking tips
Easy strategies to help the whole family eat more vegetables
Flavor-building techniques to make healthy meals delicious
Kitchen tools and resources that simplify healthy cooking

ABOUT GUEST:
Olivia Wagner, MS, RDN, LDN, IFNCP, is a functional women's health and fertility dietitian and the founder of Liv Nourished. She specializes in helping women uncover the root causes of hormone imbalances, fertility challenges, and metabolic concerns through a whole-woman approach that combines functional nutrition, advanced lab testing, and nervous system support. Olivia is passionate about empowering women to better understand their bodies and create lasting health from the inside out.

WHERE TO FIND GUEST:
Website: https://livnourishednutrition.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/livnourishednutrition/

SPONSOR:
Thank you to Jigsaw Health for being such a great sponsor. 😎 Try their Electrolyte Supreme in the crowd-favorite Fruit Punch flavor this summer.🍓🍹Use code LESSSTRESSED10 on every order for 10% off!

NUTRITION PHILOSOPHY OF LESS STRESSED LIFE:
🍽️ Over restriction is dead
🥑 Whole food is soul food and fed is best
🔄 Sustainable, synergistic nutrition is in (the opposite of whack-a-mole supplementation & supplement graveyards)
🤝 You don’t have to figure it out alone
❤️ Do your best and leave the rest

WHERE TO FIND CHRISTA:
Website: https://www.christabiegler.com/
Instagram: @anti.inflammatory.nutritionist
Podcast Instagram: @lessstressedlife
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lessstressedlife
More Links + Quizzes: https://www.christabiegler.com/links
Protocols: https://www.christabiegler.com/protocolshop

❓Questions for Christa? Submit them here: https://www.christabiegler.com/questions

TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00] Christa Biegler, RD: Hello and welcome to July. It is the ninth year of The Less Stressed Life, and while we are super excited about the rest of the year and we have some insanely awesome episodes planned, I wanted to take a beat in this very busy month of the summer and republish some of our past episodes from the very beginning of time.

[00:00:19] Christa Biegler, RD: So I looked approximately at episode zero through 50, and I picked out a few of my very favorites from that time period. I remember the interviews, the conversations, and from this interview specifically, out of Olivia's interview, I actually made a handout on little tiny tweaks and functional food additions you could make, and so we're gonna include that in the show notes just for free.

[00:00:39] Christa Biegler, RD: It's just a little sheet, a Google Doc, so you can grab that out of the show notes that came from this episode overall. So I hope you enjoy the show.

[00:00:49] Christa Biegler, RD: I'm your host, Christa Biegler, and I'm going to guess we have at least one thing in common, that we're both in pursuit of a less stressed life. On this show, I'll be interviewing experts and sharing clinical pearls from my years of practice to support high-performing, health-savvy women in pursuit of abundance and a less stressed life.

[00:01:18] Christa Biegler, RD: One of my beliefs is that we always have options for getting the results we want, so let's see what's out there together.

[00:01:36] Olivia Wagner, RD: Don't be afraid to stumble as you're starting to do some nutrient seeking and cooking in the kitchen. Not everything is gonna turn out perfect. Treat it as a learning experience, and allow it to be fun.

[00:01:47] Christa Biegler, RD: Okay. Today, we are talking to Olivia Wagner, who's a dietician. She's gonna share a lot of information about really cool things to do with food and kinda big picture thing. I'm excited to talk. This is gonna be a great episode. So Olivia is an integrative and functional dietician who believes that health is a positive vitality, not just an absence of disease.

[00:02:08] Christa Biegler, RD: So targeting food as medicine and mind-body lifestyle interventions, she takes a comprehensive and individualized approach to counseling each of her clients. Olivia's passionate about a whole food approach to nutrition and has a knack for developing easy-to-prepare, innovative, and co- wholesome recipes to support health and functional healing, and that is what I'm seeing in our content today.

[00:02:27] Christa Biegler, RD: It w- that gets me really excited, just fun food ideas. So her background is in nutrition for athletic performances, so she has this unique skill set where she can integrate sports nutrition techniques into her practice and help athletes and clients alike optimize training and performance. But some of the other areas she practices in and is very passionate about include GI health, just like me, we're RD sisters in that way, mindful eating, body positivity, farm-to-table practices, and ancestral plant-focused nutrition.

[00:02:54] Christa Biegler, RD: So in her free time, Olivia loves to travel, practice yoga, experiment in the kitchen, play with her golden [00:03:00] retriever, and cheer on her favorite Chicago sports teams. So welcome, Olivia.

[00:03:05] Olivia Wagner, RD: Thank you so much for having me today, Christa.

[00:03:07] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. It's gonna be a treat. You have some great concepts and buzzwords and cool ways to think about things.

[00:03:12] Christa Biegler, RD: So let's talk about your background a little bit why don't you tell us how you got to this? Because this isn't the norm, right? You aren't the norm when you're- when you go to become a registered dietician, and then you end up in functional and integrative.

[00:03:23] Christa Biegler, RD: So why don't you give us a quick cap on how that happened?

[00:03:26] Olivia Wagner, RD: Yeah. So when I first studied, started studying nutrition in my undergrad, I was really drawn to this grander idea about food, that we should be eating a little bit closer to the earth. We should be, focusing more on how we can improve your health versus just shifting it once things have already started to go down the drain.

[00:03:46] Olivia Wagner, RD: And I found dieticians in integrative and functional medicine, and they are a practice group of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. And I slowly fell in love with everything that they were speaking about and became a student committee [00:04:00] chair when I was in my undergrad, and from there continued to explore into the space of how food can serve as information and medicine for your body.

[00:04:09] Olivia Wagner, RD: And I recently was certified through Integrative and Functional Nutrition Academy. They have a board certification for integrative and functional nutrition therapies. And so that was a big continuing education that I did following my master's program in nutrition and physical performance. But I ended up at SLU because they were one of the only programs at the time that had a more comprehensive approached program where it was dealing with more wellness in addition to just nutrition therapy in a hospital setting.

[00:04:41] Olivia Wagner, RD: And stepping into corporate wellness after my internship and after I finished grad school, I was still looking to dive a little bit deeper into that functional nutrition realm. So getting my IFNCP starting to work in integrative health clare- clinics across Chicago has been a really insightful step for me [00:05:00] in better understanding different modalities through acupuncture and through working with- Different health providers like naturopaths, MDs yoga therapists, homeopathy is something that is currently provided at the practice that I'm at, as well as things like healing touch, and we do some work with IVs.

[00:05:18] Olivia Wagner, RD: So I've been very fortunate to be in settings where I can be exposed to this broader space of health, and also have had the amazing opportunity to be surrounded by other dieticians who are wanting to pave their nutrition in that same sort of way.

[00:05:33] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah I think you are fortunate, and I think to be in that place where you have that really integrative clinic, as you were describing to me off-air, where you have all those modalities in one place, just a really cool place essentially.

[00:05:44] Olivia Wagner, RD: Yeah. And we really get to see people change their lives in a way that I have never been able to before.

[00:05:50] Christa Biegler, RD: For sure, 'cause there's so many resources there, so let's talk about food as information. This is a term you wanted to really go over and kinda talk about as a basic. So let's talk [00:06:00] about what y- food as information is, and how that fits into a food as medicine model.

[00:06:06] Olivia Wagner, RD: And so foods are flavorful. Foods are delicious. Foods, are an expression of creativity, but they're also changing the expression of our DNA, impacting the bacteria in our digestive tracts, and impacting our cellular health and levels of inflammation throughout our body. And so every time, we take a bite of food, it's really giving our body this data bite of information.

[00:06:26] Olivia Wagner, RD: And so we wanna, instruct our genes wisely, and one of the best ways to approach this is starting with getting hands-on in the kitchen.

[00:06:35] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, totally. And I love how you talk about this, 'cause we can turn genes on and off depending on... When we do, I don't know, I'm guessing you're doing nutrigenomics in practice, which is doing food to impact your genetic expression.

[00:06:48] Christa Biegler, RD: But basically I always tell people that I often don't start there 'cause you need to have good basics or good foundation- Yep ... because it's really they're really lifestyle and good whole quality food actions no [00:07:00] matter what anyway, right?

[00:07:01] Olivia Wagner, RD: Yes, I would absolutely agree. We do touch on that a little bit in practice, but there's still so much research I think that needs to be led into, and it really does come back to a lot of those foundational basics.

[00:07:13] Olivia Wagner, RD: And we know about a few genetics that we can definitely make specific health shifts in, and especially related to Alzheimer's and, utilization of B vitamins. But really, I'm trying to take people back to that kind of whole food space.

[00:07:26] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, so let's get specific about foods that you're wanting people often to incorporate or add to improve that whole food as information communication in the body.

[00:07:38] Olivia Wagner, RD: Yeah. So what we want to think about is foods that are going to be supporting our body as a whole. And so things that will be supporting that in cellular nourishment, which I mentioned, de- natural detoxification processes, proliferation of that gut microbiota, methylation, the organs necessary to support digestion, and fighting cytokines and reducing inflammation [00:08:00] in your system.

[00:08:00] Olivia Wagner, RD: And chiseling that down, I like to talk to my patients and clients about a food is medicine toolkit. And so in this toolkit, we have things like cruciferous vegetables, that would include like broccoli, bok choy, arugula, even cilantro Herbs and spices, so things ranging from cumin, to turmeric, to ginger, to cinnamon, citrus zest and the bitter compounds present in that, so orange, lemon, lime zest.

[00:08:28] Olivia Wagner, RD: Bitter plants that, support gallbladder health including things like even radicchio or, the roots of or the leaves of a beet plant or incorporating other, like bitter tannins found in endive. Bright colored produce and anti-inflammatory oils are also other things we want to be thinking about in our toolkit because colors describe phytonutrients.

[00:08:53] Olivia Wagner, RD: The eyes are a really great way to gauge that without obsessing over every single vitamin and mineral. If we're getting two to three [00:09:00] colors on our plate, that's a really beautiful way two to three colors from plant-based foods. I'm not talking Skittles here. But a beautiful way to be thinking about, integrating those small plant chemicals because we also want to think about foods as not just vitamins and minerals, but how they act synergistically, within each other and among each other.

[00:09:19] Olivia Wagner, RD: And I think that one story that I always talk about is the case of turmeric, and I don't know if you share this with your clients a lot, but it wasn't it's a little bit of a long story, but through research we essentially identified that curcumin, the active ingredient in turmeric really is most potent and effective when combined with piperine found in black pepper, and that's always been traditional in Indian countries in curries.

[00:09:43] Olivia Wagner, RD: But, when we tried to isolate that turmeric here in the United States or in research studies and we were just looking at that curcumin by itself, it wasn't as effective. And so I think it's really important to think of things as a whole and how fiber and different phytochemicals could be playing into the utilization of those vitamins and minerals [00:10:00] too.

[00:10:00] Olivia Wagner, RD: I think there's still a lot of data we don't know, and so we want to eat foods in its whole form.

[00:10:04] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. It's synergistic, right? Actually, just talk, to tag onto that little curcumin and turmeric thing, there's another episode that was coming out about the same time your episode is coming out, and the man who is presenting, he has a like a turmeric beverage or curcumin beverage.

[00:10:18] Christa Biegler, RD: And so we talk about really the inspiration for it. He was visiting his father in Pakistan, and in their culture where they grew up, it's called haldi where they mix turmeric with oil because I guess curcumin is actually fat soluble. Which I didn't necessarily realize. I knew it was im- Yeah

[00:10:33] Christa Biegler, RD: the absorption is so much more improved by a biope- or a piperine, however you want to say it, piperine the black pepper compound. So they're used to delivering it in oil, but his story of how they decided to do this product to change, to try, they wanted to do something to help improve the world, right?

[00:10:45] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. And his dad had diabetic neuropathy or diabetic foot pain, and so his aunt put on some haldi, some turmeric and oil combination, and within an hour his pain was gone. And so it's just fun ways to talk about, It's kinda funny 'cause food doesn't [00:11:00] even always mean just internal, right?

[00:11:01] Christa Biegler, RD: I guess in that way if we think about it.

[00:11:04] Olivia Wagner, RD: Yeah. And now, golden milk, which has been traditionally consumed, in India and those that again, has that fat source. It has the, that coconut milk or, you know, includes a little bit of whole milk or coconut oil as ways to help that absorption too.

[00:11:19] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. I love that you're talking about this as a toolkit because it feels like something you can put a check mark next to as a benchmark to accomplish, right? Yeah. 'Cause often we kinda say things loosely, like to add this and add this, and you're saying make it super intentional.

[00:11:30] Christa Biegler, RD: Make a toolkit. These are the things that you need to do. These are the things to try to add to this. I like the way you're presenting that. It's really cool.

[00:11:39] Olivia Wagner, RD: And I think it relieves some anxiety for people too in making dietary and health changes. None of this is expected to happen overnight.

[00:11:46] Olivia Wagner, RD: But these are things that you might be considering starting to grocery shop for, starting to look for in recipes, starting to try to integrate into your daily habits or as a part of your routine. And we know that it's not wise to eat the same foods every single day over and over [00:12:00] again because as we were talking about the broad benefits of, the vitamins and minerals in plant-based foods, we want a variety present 'cause they don't all have the same ones.

[00:12:09] Olivia Wagner, RD: So we wanna make sure, I often give clients and patients a tool made by the Institute for Functional Medicine called the phytonutrient spectrum. And what that has on it is it's basically a color-coded list of vegetables, fruits, plant compounds from, basically going through the colors of the rainbow, and it's something that I suggest, you know, pasting up on your refrigerator or leaving in your kitchen as even inspiration for shopping.

[00:12:34] Olivia Wagner, RD: And then also supporting, the intuitiveness of where maybe nutrient gaps are in my diet. Am I not getting those anthocyanins from, like the purple and blue colors, am I missing that? Could I maybe purchase, wild blueberries and leave those in the freezer? Could I maybe add, purple cabbage to a slaw this week?

[00:12:50] Olivia Wagner, RD: So helping you to start, actually seeking, doing a little nutrient seeking and taking an intentional approach to adding vitamins and minerals to your diet.

[00:12:57] Christa Biegler, RD: And this is a good way, like you can really involve kids in [00:13:00] this as well, right? 'Cause we just think it's a simple way to just think about, like exactly like you said, just eyeball it.

[00:13:05] Christa Biegler, RD: If you have good color, you're getting great nutrients. You don't have to get too micro. that helps motivate us to, to that action. But you can really make it simple by just going to the grocery store, picking a new color every time, right?

[00:13:17] Olivia Wagner, RD: Yeah. And I think that especially for, like specific disease states and, as you're working more closely with someone, you're gonna get into the nitty-gritty, but when we're thinking, like sustainably over how you wanna be thinking about building your plate for your lifetime, that's a really great way to approach it.

[00:13:34] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, for sure. So you started talking about nutrient seeking. Can you bridge that gap? So food is information. Every bite of food is sending communication or messages to your body. But let's talk about nutrient seeking. And maybe you already feel like you touched about, on this a little bit, but maybe reiterate, why is that concept important in having a great nourished life?

[00:13:55] Olivia Wagner, RD: And so I think it makes it a little bit more fun. Honestly, [00:14:00] sometimes nutrition can be a little bit scary or feeling like you have to change your diet can be restrictive feeling or exclusive, and this, really takes an inclusive approach. So how you can start to look for foods that you want to fill your diet with and foods that are flavorful.

[00:14:14] Olivia Wagner, RD: So it gives it a fun spin, and I think a more, like, food positive approach to nourishing your diet.

[00:14:21] Christa Biegler, RD: So. i'm looking for these particular nutrients, it makes it, it just, it's a mindset shift.

[00:14:27] Olivia Wagner, RD: Yeah.

[00:14:28] Christa Biegler, RD: Cool.

[00:14:28] Olivia Wagner, RD: Exactly.

[00:14:29] Christa Biegler, RD: Cool. All right what are some issues, and these are the areas we work in often, right?

[00:14:34] Christa Biegler, RD: So sometimes we have barriers or things that stand in the way of using any food as medicine in the kitchen, right? So maybe there is some health condition present, or there's some sensitivities to food, or something like that. What do you say about those issues?

[00:14:49] Christa Biegler, RD: It is hot weather season, and there is probably no better time than now to make electrolytes part of your daily routine. Electrolytes help you make energy and help get hydration [00:15:00] into the cells, so you aren't just peeing out what you put in. I've been drinking electrolytes for at least five years, and I'm always looking for a great-tasting, high-quality powder just to change up the flavors.

[00:15:11] Christa Biegler, RD: This summer, I'm doing a lot of Electrolyte Supreme from Jigsaw. It's got a great complementary vitamin and mineral profile beyond the classic electrolyte minerals of potassium, sodium, and magnesium, without any sugar or artificial colors. It tastes great, and probably my go-to for my kids, especially the lemon lime flavor, as a hydrating lemonade for summer.

[00:15:33] Christa Biegler, RD: You can get 10% off every single order at jigsawhealth.com with the code LESSSTRESSED10. That's LESSSTRESSED10 to take 10% off of all of Jigsaw's incredible products from Electrolyte Supreme to potassium and adrenal cocktails to cod liver oil and beyond. So go get yourself now and start hydrating.

[00:15:56] Olivia Wagner, RD: Yeah, and this is something that I run into a lot in practice, and [00:16:00] often it's a place we have to start and work through a little bit.

[00:16:03] Olivia Wagner, RD: But it might be things like food sensitivities or shifts in microbiota, like bacterial overgrowth or candidiasis, things that could be impeding, really the digestion and absorption of some of your nutrients. It could be undiagnosed health conditions or, changes in your lipids, hypercholesterolemia, or it could be that you're a pre-diabetic.

[00:16:24] Olivia Wagner, RD: And so we want to think about the foods that you need to support your individual biochemistry, and this is always going to be evolving. There's always gonna be certain changes in your eating patterns to support things like this, and it might just be warranted for a period of time. But as a part of the Food as Medicine toolkit, a few other things that I regularly include are, like, cultured foods, fermented foods, things that omega-3 fatty acids, and I think that those three really fall Also into this category because, if you have bacterial overgrowth and you're eating a lot of fermented foods, maybe you think you're [00:17:00] nutrient seeking and you're, trying to build up that good microflora in your digestive tract, but you're feeling really bloated or you're seeing a lot of loose stool or finding just that you're really digestively uncomfortable, if there's the bacterial overgrowth present, that's actually feeding some un-ideal bacteria.

[00:17:16] Olivia Wagner, RD: And so we wanna make sure that with those food is- that food is medicine toolkit, we're using it appropriately, and therapeutically at times based on what your chemistry is and what your body is, sharing with us.

[00:17:29] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, for sure. So let's talk applications. What are your tips?

[00:17:33] Christa Biegler, RD: What are some go-to strategies you share with clients for cooking techniques or anything to improve? One I think a common pushback is, my family won't eat X, Y, Z thing. So how do you increase acceptability of new foods even for picky eaters? Let's talk about different cooking techniques and how to apply some of this stuff that you're talking about.

[00:17:52] Olivia Wagner, RD: Absolutely. So Rebecca Katz has been one of my favorite recommendations to my clients and [00:18:00] patients as a recipe resource because she really talks a lot about flavor combining, and I love to share this technique that she developed called FAST. F-A-S-S, and that stands for fat, acid, salt, and sweet. And it really helps to make meals taste really nice.

[00:18:17] Olivia Wagner, RD: And so if you have a meal that's feels like it's missing something or you're not really liking the flavor of it, run through FASS in your head. Does it have a fat? Does it have an acid? Does it have a salt? Does it have something sweet? And the fats we might be thinking about could be, like, olive oil, avocado, coconut milk.

[00:18:32] Olivia Wagner, RD: Those support satiety, they provide a richness to meals, and they help to bring out flavors. Acids help to bring brightness to a dish, cut through maybe some more muted flavors. They help to support brightening vegetables and the natural flavors found in those. Salt helps to break down actually vegetable fiber, and so it allows you to release some of the muted flavors that could be present there, but it also [00:19:00] adds it really helps to mute any bitterness that's present in a vegetable too.

[00:19:05] Olivia Wagner, RD: And then the sweetness. That, again, really helps to counteract that bitter, and it can be really great for especially if you're using things like maple syrup, honey, fresh fruit, or dates. You're getting vitamins and minerals there that are not only providing that sweet taste that people are really inclined to lean toward, but they're also priding- providing a little vitamin and mineral too.

[00:19:26] Olivia Wagner, RD: Cool. So FASS is one of my favorites for boosting flavor.

[00:19:29] Christa Biegler, RD: Cool. F- A-S- I think about FASS for developing, like, dressing recipes all the time, but I didn't think about it in context of the entire meal. So you've changed my brain thoughts on that, so I like it.

[00:19:40] Olivia Wagner, RD: those who really struggle with- trying to increase acceptability of certain foods in their household.

[00:19:45] Olivia Wagner, RD: They're cooking for large groups. I think that always trying to pair something new with something that's a little bit familiar can be helpful. Yes. And so maybe if it's like you're trying a new vegetable and you know your kids really, they will eat almost anything that has Parmesan [00:20:00] cheese on it.

[00:20:00] Olivia Wagner, RD: Maybe you do an aged sharp cheese on top of those veggies. I think that making purees or combining a potato with something like a parsnip or like a carrot or a sweet potato is another way to add another colorful vegetable to a food that is already accepted within the family.

[00:20:17] Olivia Wagner, RD: And that playing around with, I think a big thing is if there's a vegetable, for example, and I know I've been speaking a lot to vegetables, it seems to be the area that gets the most kickback with people struggling to find acceptance for. And so trying them in, with different preparations, whether it's sauteing or roasting or, maybe it is diced or shredded into a salad.

[00:20:38] Olivia Wagner, RD: It doesn't always have to just be eaten steamed or just eaten in one preparation. There's a lot of different ways that you can navigate a vegetable, and I think that sometimes for even young kids, if they accept meat or things like meatballs or meatloaf, grinding up like a little shiitake mushroom or a little broccoli or carrots into a meatball or a meatloaf is a really easy way to add in some [00:21:00] different phytonutrients to their diet.

[00:21:02] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, and it really augments the flavor, right? So sometimes when I'm feeling fancy, so you guys can go home and take this with you for the weekend, the French use something called mirepoix, and it's basically just carrot, celery, and onion, but that's their basis of flavor. The last time I made tomato soup, I did mirepoix first because it adds a different and more complex but delicious flavor.

[00:21:23] Christa Biegler, RD: And so a lot of times people eat it and just say, "Oh, this is so good. It's just a little different." But also keeping, another big piece here is keeping food communication positive because it's easy to assign threats to kids "You have to eat everything on your plate." Whereas when we try to keep it more positive, we're probably gonna have more success.

[00:21:39] Christa Biegler, RD: Absolutely. Because sometimes, kids are used to seeing bland, boring colors just because we have these kids menus that are bland, boring colors, which is another topic which is it's, it's just why do we think that they need a special menu that's not the same as the rest of us?

[00:21:53] Christa Biegler, RD: I'm not sure. But they like these bland, they're used to these bland, boring colors, so sometimes if they see a new color, if you mix in, sweet potato in with [00:22:00] another potato, what are they gonna think? But really, if you chalk it up as, "Cool, it's orange," "You can cross that off on your rainbow today," then it makes it, it changes the conversation.

[00:22:10] Olivia Wagner, RD: Totally. Making it cool and giving them the empowerment to pick out a vegetable for themself in the grocery store, maybe you don't know what it is, maybe they don't know what it is, but you get to play with it together in the kitchen and make it into something. again, making it like an exploration for them, like they've, even creating a dialogue where they went to the jungle of the grocery store.

[00:22:26] Olivia Wagner, RD: They picked up a new vegetable, and now you're gonna eat it together. It's this, it creates this extraordinary journey for them.

[00:22:33] Christa Biegler, RD: I do, and I mean, we know this, but I do find that when my kids plant, and I'm not saying I have a green thumb, but radishes, for example, grow in 28 days. So I find that when my kids actually plant those, they're much more interested in eating what they made, right?

[00:22:47] Olivia Wagner, RD: Absolutely. Kids are smart, and I think we just gotta give them a little bit more credit.

[00:22:51] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. And no one's perfect here. These are just ideas, and it's a continued uphill process sometimes because sometimes they get messages that are different from different [00:23:00] sources, so it's not always so straightforward, but- Yeah

[00:23:02] Christa Biegler, RD: so one of my favorite things that you wanted to talk about th- when I was reading through some of your content Olivia, is that you have this granimal approach. So here's the scoop. It's 2:00, haven't eaten, or don't have a plan for supper what do you do? Like, how do you decide, "Here's how I'm gonna develop a meal plan for tonight"?

[00:23:21] Olivia Wagner, RD: Yeah. Okay. So I've seen this over and over again when working with clients and patients, and I've just found taking this granimal or combining mixing and matching different macronutrient groups essentially on your plate is an easy way to think about planning meals and making something quick.

[00:23:41] Olivia Wagner, RD: And so I like to talk about PCF3 meals, which stands for proteins, quality carbohydrates, healthy fat, fiber, and ferments. And I know that is a total mouthful, so it's a lot easier to see on paper. So the easiest way to break that down is we're looking for a protein option as number one, a favorable [00:24:00] fat option as number two, flavorful fat, and as option number three, a colorful carbohydrate.

[00:24:06] Olivia Wagner, RD: And so a lot of times that comes down to making a batch of roasted vegetables or maybe it's even having some organic frozen vegetables in your freezer or a sweet potato on hand that you could quickly bake. But I think that having something available for your colorful carbohydrate is one of the easiest ways to get those two to three colors on your plate and start to get in that fiber that's supportive to your gut health and those phytonutrients into your belly.

[00:24:32] Christa Biegler, RD: Hey, will you repeat the other ones? It was proteins, fat, carbs, but then you added a couple other Fs, and you said ferments, and what was the other one?

[00:24:39] Christa Biegler, RD: Fiber. Thank you. I like the play on that. That's cool.

[00:24:42] Olivia Wagner, RD: Yeah, so to shorten it, it's really protein, fat, and vegetables is what we're thinking about.

[00:24:47] Olivia Wagner, RD: But PCF3 would be getting everything in there together.

[00:24:50] Christa Biegler, RD: Okay. Cool. So give me some examples of what this looks like.

[00:24:54] Olivia Wagner, RD: Yeah. So for protein, something that I often suggest is, and it's nice [00:25:00] to forecast for your PCF3 meals. So thinking a little bit at the start of the week, I know these are backup meals or they could be intentional, like we're planning on eating this Wednesday, Thursday night, whatever it might be.

[00:25:11] Olivia Wagner, RD: But the idea would be that maybe you would pick a protein. So it could even be, I give a little template for making your own meatball and burger patty and breakfast sausage. So you pick your protein, you pick your herbs and spices, and whether you roll it into a ball, burger patty, or a little sausage patty is what defines what it is.

[00:25:28] Olivia Wagner, RD: You can bake it, you can saute it, you can grill it. But as soon as it cools, you can pop it into your fridge or you can freeze it off. And then that's something, you're hitting that 2:00 or 3:00 o'clock time in the afternoon where you're like, "What am I gonna eat?" Maybe the kids are gone. Maybe you know you have a meeting later in the evening and you really aren't gonna have time to put on the, something on the table.

[00:25:45] Olivia Wagner, RD: Maybe you pull out those grass-fed beef meatballs you made. You can spiralize a zucchini noodle and saute it with a little olive oil, and then you've got, a quick meal. My favorite option for flavorful fat is I make batches of pesto in advance. [00:26:00] And so that can be things like sun-dried tomato pesto with pine nuts, or basil pesto with walnuts, or it can be my detox pesto, which is just lemon zest, cilantro, basil, and parsley.

[00:26:11] Olivia Wagner, RD: Has no nuts or seeds in it, and you blend it with some high-quality olive oil. Freezing those off, if I put them in little two to four-ounce mason jars, and then it's something you can thaw in just a little bit of warm water while you're getting your other pieces of the meal together. And then in 15 minutes, you don't only have a balanced meal on your plate, but you have something that's really flavor-packed too, and you've just done that part in advance.

[00:26:32] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. I love batching sauces because I love a good flavorful sauce like a pesto, but you don't always have time to make that. So make multiple when you do.

[00:26:40] Olivia Wagner, RD: And I think that's a great way to nutrient seek too, because then you can add things like watercress into your pesto, or you're making sure that you're getting some of those phytonutrient-packed herbs into your diet like cilantro and parsley and basil.

[00:26:54] Olivia Wagner, RD: And so I think that it's a good way to set you up for success in that arena too.

[00:26:58] Christa Biegler, RD: Okay. So how about you're feeling [00:27:00] like you're in a slump? 'Cause so many people eat the same things on repeat because we're just creatures of habit and it's easier if you've already done something.

[00:27:06] Christa Biegler, RD: So what about when you're just feeling like, ugh, you have no meal inspiration or you just don't feel like doing anything? What are your thoughts on reviving the life in excitement around food?

[00:27:17] Olivia Wagner, RD: Yeah. I think turning to a cookbook is a really great way to draw inspiration, even if the cookbook doesn't fully jive with now today there is such a wide selection of cookbooks available that, can fit different dietary preferences.

[00:27:31] Olivia Wagner, RD: But just even turning on the Cooking Channel or looking at a cookbook, it gives you different ideas of maybe, like a vegetable that you're not using or a technique or whether it's pureeing something or dicing something fine. Sometimes just having even a digi- different visual experience on your plate can be reviving in a sense.

[00:27:48] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, that's exactly what I do is When I'm feeling super slumpy, I just turn on the Food Network and just see what they're making and think, "Oh, I could make something similar to this." And it's funny that you say that. I have to go to a holiday party, and one [00:28:00] of the things was to bring a cookbook to exchange, and so I was looking through what I might wanna part with, and I ran across a cookbook that I probably got at least 10 years ago.

[00:28:10] Christa Biegler, RD: And at the time I was like, "Oh, these recipes are, like, I don't have access to some of these ingredients," or, "I, this isn't an option for me." And so I think it's kinda funny to revisit something. So I'd gotten rid of similar cookbooks by the same author because at the time, 10 years ago, I couldn't find arugula very frequently in my town of 20,000, and now it's in my tiny town.

[00:28:29] Christa Biegler, RD: My point is sometimes if you had a resource that didn't work for you a long time ago, sometimes it's good to bring it out now 'cause maybe you're in a different place in life, and maybe you're ready to use those recipes or you feel like, "Oh, these are easy now." So it's just a fun way to think about it as well.

[00:28:42] Olivia Wagner, RD: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that also, getting together with a friend, maybe doing a cook day together where you make a few recipes that you've decided on or you do some meal swaps is another way to boost some excitement again if you're in a little bit of a food rut.

[00:28:57] Olivia Wagner, RD: I think that also just introducing some new [00:29:00] tools, and so a few of my favorites, I could not live without my Microplane. I don't know about you, but my Microplane is my favorite tool in the kitchen. I use it for zesting limes and lemons, for grating turmeric and ginger and garlic. Grating garlic is a game-changer.

[00:29:15] Olivia Wagner, RD: Putting it on that Microplane and getting it really fine, it like evenly disperses through a vinaigrette. It's great for just tossing in like roasted vegetables after you've already cooked them. It's a game-changer. You got, you must try it. Oh,

[00:29:28] Christa Biegler, RD: good call. I forgot about this.

[00:29:30] Christa Biegler, RD: This was years ago. I used to love pressing garlic cloves like at the end of cooking a pizza, right? So like close to the end when it was done, go press it all over the place. It like changed everything.

[00:29:40] Olivia Wagner, RD: And actually, if you press those garlic cloves and you let them sit for about five minutes, it really enhances some of the phytochemical compounds present in the garlic that are really important for detoxification support, and so that's a little food is medicine tip in that as well.

[00:29:57] Christa Biegler, RD: So a Microplane, in case anyone doesn't know [00:30:00] by chance, it's like a tiny grater, not even like a small one, but the little holes are teeny-tiny small, right? So not big shreds but little tiny micro shreds. And that's how you really can zest super easily like a, a citrus.

[00:30:13] Olivia Wagner, RD: Yeah, and I'll even do a good hard cheese on there, and it comes out really fine, and it just adds a little bit of like saltiness and a shift of flavor to whatever you're cooking too, but it's not like big hunks of cheese necessarily.

[00:30:24] Christa Biegler, RD: I like that idea. That's cool.

[00:30:25] Olivia Wagner, RD: Also things like a, I love the little handheld vegetable spiralizer. It's not as intimidating as the big one, and that's something you can throw in your lunchbox and you can spiralize a zucchini on the spot at your lunch meal. Or it's just easy for a single serve dinner if you are gonna throw together a quick protein, fat fiber-rich vegetable meal.

[00:30:45] Olivia Wagner, RD: Yeah. And I love playing around with things like food, my food processor is one of my favorite tools, and there's also the NutriBullet, which is, I think has a lot of purpose to it outside of smoothies. You can make soups in there. You can make... I make pestos in there. Sometimes I'll make [00:31:00] olive tapenades, and it's nice 'cause it's just a little handheld one, and I sometimes feel like it's a little easier to clean.

[00:31:05] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. I do, that is one thing that gets forgotten a lot, is olive tapenades. That's a good one. So on the note of food processors, my now husband, when we were dating early, I knew I was gonna keep him early on because he heard my hint about needing a food processor in college, and he bought me one the next month for Valentine's Day.

[00:31:21] Christa Biegler, RD: And then, shortly after we were married I got rid of it because I didn't use it that often because it was a big food processor, and now I borrow my in-laws' food processor whenever I need to shred zucchini big. But I just use a three or four-cup one, and I use it constantly because it's small, easy to get out, easy to make sauces.

[00:31:37] Christa Biegler, RD: Ah. That's all I use is just my little baby one.

[00:31:39] Olivia Wagner, RD: Oh, there was this one, there was once a tool called the something stick, but basically it's like a mini food processor so I think a two to c- three cup one, and then it's got an immersion blender and a whisk all in one kit, and I think it's under $100.

[00:31:54] Olivia Wagner, RD: It's great.

[00:31:55] Christa Biegler, RD: Weird. If you see that, send it to me.

[00:31:57] Olivia Wagner, RD: I will.

[00:31:58] Christa Biegler, RD: Okay. I will. Cool. [00:32:00] So let's talk other favorite food as medicine resources and products to help really simplify it 'cause we talked about some things that might be big, new. They're not always every day. The goal is to make these everyday things, so now I can go take my Microplane, set it right next to my oven so that way I'm, like, using it more intentionally 'cause if it's in a drawer I might not use it intentionally 'cause today you've inspired me to do that.

[00:32:20] Christa Biegler, RD: But let's talk about other things for making life simple 'cause we all need to simplify things, but we still want great flavor and taste and quality.

[00:32:28] Olivia Wagner, RD: Absolutely. So I mentioned cookbooks. That Rebecca Katz one I love, I think is great. Her favorite of mine right now is The Healthy Mind Cookbook. So something just fun as inspiration.

[00:32:39] Olivia Wagner, RD: We talked about a few of those products that you could pick up, so like the microplane, the vegetable spiralizer. There's a brand called Simple Mills. They're actually headquartered here in Chicago with me, and they do an amazing job of nutrient seeking already, in my opinion. They focus on ingredients that both you and your body can recognize, and th- it's something that you can [00:33:00] integrate, you know, in your cabinets and in your pantry as another way to supplement food as medicine focused meals.

[00:33:06] Olivia Wagner, RD: And maybe it's using their crackers with a salmon dip or they have baking mixes that use coconut flour and almond flour. So again, fit with a lot of dietary modifications, but really are also focusing just around including more whole food ingredients.

[00:33:21] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, and I can attest to the fact that- Yes

[00:33:24] Christa Biegler, RD: I don't think I knew about Simple Mills for very long, but I went to one of their events when I was in DC at the dietician conference recently, and I knew a little bit about them before, but man, I, filled my cupboard with their stuff because it's really, like there's very few ingredients. It's really high quality ingredients.

[00:33:39] Christa Biegler, RD: So it's it's technically a g- they're all gluten-free products. I think they all are. They're almond, what, coconut? Are they almond and coconut, I think? But they don't- Yeah ... taste like it necessarily, right? They taste "normal," right? They t- they taste fantastic. They would just fool anyone that maybe wasn't used to that, right?

[00:33:57] Christa Biegler, RD: That's what I take away from it. I love their stuff. [00:34:00] I don't know how they're doing it, honestly, 'cause it, it's just perfect. No other company is doing it so simply that tastes that good. So they're a favorite of mine, too.

[00:34:08] Olivia Wagner, RD: My dad is a very hard sell. I've made things over the years.

[00:34:11] Olivia Wagner, RD: My poor family has been subjected to a lot of recipe development in my lifetime. Yeah. And I've heard things like it was palatable." It was... when he eats Simple Mills food and he's like, "Yeah, it's good."

[00:34:21] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah.

[00:34:21] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. And like my kids are like, "Oh, can I have those muffins, Mom?" Absolutely, you can eat all these muffins if you want.

[00:34:27] Christa Biegler, RD: I don't feel bad about these. They feel like they're really good. They're good nutrients is my point, so they're not like simple carbs. The goal is these are good but they taste fantastic, so makes me happy.

[00:34:36] Olivia Wagner, RD: Yeah. And so back to it being like a food as medicine kind of product, that's, it's something that can supplement your meal.

[00:34:42] Olivia Wagner, RD: You can still, like they have a pizza crust and they have artisan bread mix, and so it's not like it's becoming your meal, but it's something that can accre- a little bit more fun and add a maybe a little bit more normalcy to some of the meals that you've had while you're looking to add in more plant-based fiber [00:35:00] and, different phytochemical sources from like herbs and spices that we're talking about here.

[00:35:04] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, for sure. Cool. Olivia, if someone's listening today and they say, "Wow, that was all fantastic, but where do I start?" What is your gut reaction to tell them?

[00:35:17] Olivia Wagner, RD: So I have created a nutrient seeking ebook that will be posted on my website, livenourishnutrition.com. Feel free to go on over there. It's a free ebook.

[00:35:27] Olivia Wagner, RD: Download it and start, practicing your food is medicine strategies in the kitchen.

[00:35:31] Christa Biegler, RD: Cool. All right, I was gonna ask you where people can find you, but it's livenourishnutrition.com. Any-

[00:35:36] Olivia Wagner, RD: Livenourishnutrition.com, yeah.

[00:35:37] Christa Biegler, RD: Okay, cool, and that'll be in the show notes. It's a food is medicine nutrient seeking ebook.

[00:35:42] Christa Biegler, RD: Excellent. Anything else you wanted to add, Olivia?

[00:35:46] Olivia Wagner, RD: Don't be afraid to stumble as you're starting to do some nutrient seeking and cooking in the kitchen. Not everything is gonna turn out perfect. Treat it as a learning experience, and allow it to be fun. It's supposed to be fun as well as [00:36:00] nourishing.

[00:36:00] Olivia Wagner, RD: Enjoy your food as medicine journey.

[00:36:02] Christa Biegler, RD: Perfect. Perfect. Love that tip. Thanks, Olivia.

[00:36:04] Olivia Wagner, RD: Of course. Thanks for having me, Christa.