Baby Led Weaning, Picky Eating and Toddlers that Want to Snack All Day with Jordyn Koveleski Gorman, SLP

This week on the Less Stressed Life, we’re unpacking the messy, confusing, and sometimes stressful world of feeding little ones. Jordyn Koveleski Gorman, a speech-language pathologist and feeding specialist, joins me to talk about starting solids, baby led weaning, gagging, picky eating, and how to build a healthy relationship with food from the very beginning.

We dig into the myths and realities of baby led weaning, why purees still matter, how to approach picky eating without shame, and the surprising role of sensory exploration and language in shaping food preferences.

If you’ve ever wondered whether you’re “doing it right” when it comes to starting solids or worried about picky eating, this conversation brings both clarity and practical next steps.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:
• A flexible combo of baby led weaning and purees works best
• Early chewing reduces picky eating risk
• Gagging is normal and part of learning
• Neutral language builds healthier food associations
• Whole food swaps help ease away from constant snacking

ABOUT GUEST:
Jordyn Koveleski Gorman is a licensed speech-language pathologist, feeding specialist, and the founder of Eat Play Say, an online resource hub for parents who want clear, expert-backed answers about speech, feeding, and play development. With nearly a decade of clinical experience, Jordyn leads a team of pediatric specialists serving over 700,000 followers and a community of parents around the world. Eat Play Say has collaborated with companies like Lalo, ByHeart, Primally Pure, and Little Spoon, and continues to expand its offerings, from digital playbooks and developmental handbooks to consultations. As a mom of two, she knows what it’s like to Google everything, and created Eat Play Say so you don’t have to.

WHERE TO FIND:
Website: https://www.eatplaysay.com/ 
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/eatplaysay 

WHERE TO FIND CHRISTA:
Website: https://www.christabiegler.com/
Instagram: @anti.inflammatory.nutritionist
Podcast Instagram: @lessstressedlife
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lessstressedlife

NUTRITION PHILOSOPHY OF LESS STRESSED LIFE:
🍽️ Over restriction is dead
🥑 Whole food is soul food and fed is best
🔄 Sustainable, synergistic nutrition is in (the opposite of whack-a-mole supplementation & supplement graveyards)
🤝 You don’t have to figure it out alone
❤️ Do your best and leave the rest

SPONSOR:
Thanks to Jigsaw Health for sponsoring this episode! Looking for a clean, tasty way to stay hydrated this summer? Their Electrolyte Supreme is a go-to for energy, minerals, and daily hydration support. Use code LESSSTRESSED10 at JigsawHealth.com for 10% off—unlimited use!

TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: that. The earlier we get little ones chewing, the less likely they are to actually be picky eaters in toddlerhood, which is something that parents are trying to avoid. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to start with baby led weaning to achieve that goal of not having a picky eater.

And that's really something important to point out.

[00:00:17] Christa Biegler, RD: I'm your host Christa Biegler, and I'm going to guess we have at least one thing in common that we're both in pursuit of a less stressed life. On the show, I'll be interviewing experts and sharing clinical pearls from my years of practice to support high performing health savvy women in pursuit of abundance and a less stressed life.

One of my beliefs is that we always have options for getting the results we want. So let's see what's out there together.

Today on the Less Stressed Life I have Jordan Koveleski Gorman, who is a licensed speech language pathologist, feeding specialist, and the founder of Eat, play, say, an online resource hub for parents who want clear, expert backed answers about speech feeding and play development. With nearly a decade of clinical experience, Jordan leads a team of pediatric specialists serving over 700,000 followers and a community of parents around the world, eat, play, say, has collaborated with companies like.

Laylo by heart, primely peer, and Little Spoon, and continues to expand its offerings from digital playbooks and developmental handbooks to consultations. As a mom of two, she knows what it's like to Google everything and created, eat, play, say so you don't have to. Welcome to the show, Jordan.

[00:01:50] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:52] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. Okay. We were just talking offline about how your oldest is four and you've got another one on the way, and so things are busy at your home. And I'm curious how all of this happened, like why you decided, wow, I am gonna put all of this stuff out into the universe. Like where did you start as speech language pathologist, Jordan, to what is some of the origin story of how we got here?

[00:02:14] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: Yeah, no, great question. So I have always worked with infants and toddlers since I came out of grad school. And I was like a play-based therapist to start worked at a really small clinic and nobody was a feeding specialist. And we had so many little ones come in with difficulty starting solids bottles, picky eating.

So I decided to take all this extra coursework while I was there. Became a feeding specialist over a few years. And then transitioned into my dream job working at a rehabilitation hospital for little ones who had feeding difficulties, had my son was all set on. Going back to work, realized I couldn't leave him.

I just, I wanted to be with him. I needed to find something else. And being a mom was really what I wanted to do. But I still had this passion for providing parents with education. So I started sharing things on social media and little by little it just blew up. I was like, oh my gosh, this could be a business.

Like I can reach so many more people. So little by little, I grew e place A started building my team, registered dietician lactation consultants, OTPT, and we've become this powerhouse of specialists that are helping parents all over. And I have my dream job of being a mom and my dream job of educating about speech and feeding with my team.

[00:03:30] Christa Biegler, RD: I love that story. I love anytime people are enjoying their life and doing their zone of hopefully genius more so than excellence. I love this. I dunno if you've ever heard this before. I interviewed the guy who wrote the book about this, I think his name is Gay. I forgot his name, but he wrote the Big Leap Gay Hendricks, and he always talks about how people can die in their zone of excellence is half sad.

Or they can have their zone of genius, which doesn't really feel like work. And so I always think about that kind of in the background quite often when I'm think, going through life or interviewing people. So let's talk about when. What were some of the things that happened even in your own parenting journey that started to be really supportive in how you were supporting other parents?

For example, one of the things we might wanna talk about a little bit is the transition from breastfeeding to formula feeding, for example. So can you tell us about any of these things along the parenting journey that have really helped you do your job better? 

[00:04:29] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: Yeah, I think my business really started to take off when I had my second.

So I have a daughter, Penelope, she's two. And while my kids look identical, I have a boy and a girl. They are two completely different children. And that gives you such a good perspective as a professional because all of. The recommendations that you have given pre-kids, then you have a kid and then you have a completely different kid, you have a great understanding for how things can be different and it doesn't mean that they're wrong, they're just different.

So my first, I had breastfeeding difficulties. He ended up having torticollis a lot of motor difficulties. So formula ended up being the right choice for us to get him fed, where my daughter was actually exclusively nursed for 21 months, which is completely different. And I have taken those journeys and been able to explain to parents, give them the facts about feeding your little one, making the choice that's best for you without shame, because I don't have shame in either way that I fed my children and I know that there can be a lot of.

Feelings around feeding, feeding, sleep, and politics with parents. Those are like the three big triggers. So I'm glad that I was able to have those different journeys because it made me a better professional and also just made me able to reach my audience so much better. And I'm thankful for both experiences.

[00:05:46] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, for sure. Okay, so talking about you with this background of being an SLP, I think about you being a feeding. Expert around some of these oral motor things and you were sharing offline that as you started to build your team, you added a dietician. And we just have such very complimentary skillsets to be honest.

But I wanna really talk about some things that I feel like a speech language therapist is a little bit more of an expert about, which is some of these concepts around things that babies gravitate to or not gravitate to. But let's start with baby led weaning the conversation about that. First of all, I have to paint the picture.

We need to paint the picture of what is baby led weaning? What are the recommendations for solids, et cetera, first of all? 

[00:06:27] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: Yeah, so you know, the definition of baby led weaning has changed over the years. The initial definition was like no purees, no spoons, all hands, all whole foods. You don't modify them at all for baby.

But actually over the years it's changed a little bit to basically meeting that baby self feeds, foods. That you don't modify. So you can still use purees that are naturally occurring yogurt, applesauce, but you can also give a chicken leg to your six month old and they can hold it and eat it. And the whole point is to watch baby's cues and let them completely take the lead.

That is essentially what baby led weeding is. 

[00:07:03] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. This is interesting. I remember my oldest is 20 and so I felt like those days it was definitely giving your kid pureed baby food out of a jar, and I just, I don't really remember after that. It's a blur. I don't remember what happened after that for my ex children.

And so when did this sort of, when did this overall conversation shift, is this like a very popular, is this the recommendation? What is the landscape of current pediatric feeding? 

[00:07:29] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: Yeah. It's new in the last decade and I really feel like in the last five years, I even feel like since COVID where social media blew up and everybody started really talking about baby led weaning, it became a thing.

A lot of practitioners, like medical practitioners, pediatricians, are still very hesitant about it. Because the thought of giving a six month old a chicken leg is a little scary, especially for some parents, especially practitioners. But there is some research to support that giving little ones soft whole foods is not more of a choking risk than giving them purees.

And there's research to support that. The earlier we get little ones chewing, the less likely they are to actually be picky eaters in toddlerhood, which is something that parents are trying to avoid. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to start with baby led weaning to achieve that goal of not having a picky eater.

And that's really something important to point out. 

[00:08:23] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. Okay. So if you were. Having a baby, which is true. What approach would you take puree, be led weaning combo and I also wanna comment, it makes sense that practitioners maybe if since you gave that timeline, it takes a long time sometimes for what is new, to become mainstream.

So that's interesting. And I'd had clients mention what they were doing, but ultimately. It's however you wanna start, because there's all this, I felt like there was always this noise around start feeding your kid at four months or six months or whatever, and I was like, I don't know.

I just feel like they change it all the time. And you're somewhat validating that a little bit, that it has changed in this last decade. 

[00:09:05] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: Yes, it has. And the a P right now is like the gold standard of what parents are supposed to look towards. But it's funny because the a P will say around six months of age is when little ones are ready to start solids.

They should be sitting up at least with support. Sitting up without support is preferred so that they can use their hands to self-feed themselves. But then you hear from parents saying, my pediatrician at my four month appointment said, we're good to go. Start with rice cereal. So you're right. That is really not translating to a lot of pediatricians trickling down.

And then parents go to social media and they see a six month old eating pancakes and they're like. What am I supposed to be doing here? Yeah. So it's really tricky. So at E Place A and with both my kids, I've done a combination approach. Purees are the safest texture to give your little one.

There is the least amount of risk for choking, but we know from that research we do want littles to try to be mashing and chewing quickly. So we don't just wanna stay on purees. So I always recommend parents give. Mash down avocado with a whole slice of avocado. Mash down banana with a whole slice of banana, and always have multiple textures present and see what your baby will gravitate towards.

[00:10:15] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. You know what I think about this, it feels fun, and so I think we always have the opportunity to think, oh, this feels overwhelming. Like I've gotta do two things. Or it could just feel fun to see, I wonder which one my kid's gonna go for, right? That's how it feels to me. I never even would've thought about this concept.

I feel like I was in survival mode when my kids were little and I was just. Feeding them or giving them things, but also when it's not your first kid, I don't know about you, but I feel like you become much more relaxed after the first one. You're like, here, try this.

[00:10:46] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: Yes. I 

had a meal plan for my first one and my second one I was like, what's ripe?

What is soft? What do I have in my pantry? You're gonna have this today, 

[00:10:54] Christa Biegler, RD: right? You can just eat what I'm eating or it appears you're hungry. Here is some berries, like here is, yeah, same thing. Okay. So I wanna talk a little bit about picky eating, but on that similar note, so some kids might go for this whole food versus mashed food, but then there's other.

Feeding things that come up. So some, so do some kids resist salads and not want to eat at all for a long time? What happens next? If feeding is not going well, what are some of the things that happen?

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[00:12:30] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: Yeah, so we have to remember that it's a brand new sensory experience for kids, right?

They've only had formula or breast milk, a bottle nipple, or a mom's nipple in their mouth. And now they're getting all of these tastes and textures that they've never experienced before. And some research has even said that it can take a hundred presentations of a food for a little one to accept it, which is super overwhelming when you're like, they're supposed to eat a hundred foods before one, apparently.

Like, how am I supposed to do this? Giving little ones time to explore the food, stick their hands in it. Don't be shoving the food in their mouth. All of those things so that they can go at their own pace. If you're seeing resistance, that is sometimes very normal, gagging is normal, right?

Their gag reflex is so forward in their mouth, and what pushes their gag reflex back is their hands in their mouth, teethers in their mouth, and food in their mouth. So that means in order to get through the gagging, we have to. Give them foods to gag on, which is a weird concept, but it is normal.

[00:13:27] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. Interesting. Okay, so are there any other reasons that babies would avoid solids? Let's say you put stuff on your baby's tray and it's been, you started at six months and two months later your baby is still has no interest in the at all in this food. 

[00:13:44] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: It could be a few things. They go through teething stages too, where they're just like not in it.

Sometimes little ones start out strong, then all of a sudden they're having some type of regression, teething, don't, like they had a bad experience with the food and they're remembering that and they don't wanna try it again. There's ups and downs with everything feeding, just like there's ups and downs with sleep.

There's ups and downs with mood with everything. So we typically aren't really concerned oh my gosh, there's a feeding problem. Unless they've eliminated every food they've tried or they're only really eating one to five foods when before they were eating 20, 25 foods. And I know it can be really overwhelming, especially as parents watch social media or they see this eight month old devour a big plate with all of these perfectly curated foods on it.

But there is a little bit of normalcy with that. I always recommend to parents. To try to get your little one involved in the kitchen outside of the high chair so that there's not always a pressure to eat food when you're around food. That also can really help with picky eating because littles have that awareness of food exists, not when I'm just in a high chair where maybe I don't want to eat it.

[00:14:54] Christa Biegler, RD: I think that's actually a really interesting concept because I would love to talk to you more a little bit about picky eating, and I'm gonna frame it up a little bit differently, but I love this concept, so I wanna underline it, helping in the kitchen, because then we do not associate food with automatically eating.

So it's just, which is just interesting because something I've thought about over the years is just unconscious eating patterns, right? Grazing just because we're around it. So it's just completely unconscious, which is its own food relationship issue in a way, right?

Where we're just not being super conscious. So that's an interesting spin on that topic. I like it. No one's ever said it that way before, to me anyway. Okay. So I wanna talk about. About healthy food relationships, because I think that's a precursor to picky eating potentially. The first thing you said was don't force food in baby's mouth, which I definitely have flashbacks to that for my oldest child.

That was just how you, I feel like that was what you did when you were feeding them puree. So let's talk about what are some of the things that parents can do to start to foster a healthy relationship with food in their children? 

[00:16:02] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: So talking about the profile or like the texture or the adjectives of food in a very neutral way.

So little ones, especially the first time that they are getting introduced to food from infancy. Even in toddlerhood, they're starting to categorize foods in their brain. This is a breakfast food. I eat these foods for breakfast, and it's happening like subconsciously. These are foods I have for snack.

These are foods that mom offers at dinnertime. So if we start to associate this is a good food or this is a bad food, they're gonna start to have those feelings towards those foods. So instead we say things if a little one doesn't like that food, instead of saying, oh, was that yucky? Was that gross?

Because now they're gonna think, okay, spinach is horrible. It's gross. Mommy said it was yucky. I didn't like it. You could say, oh, was that a lot of food? Was that squishy? Let's do a little bit, let's do a little bit of food. Or let's add something to it so it's a little more crumbly or something else.

Let's just talk about the texture of the food and not put a positive or a negative, like qualifier on it. And instead of saying, oh, you liked this last time, this was yummy last time. Say, wow, that was a great bite. It's so tasty. Something like that. So it's not good or bad.

[00:17:12] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, 

no, that makes a lot of sense.

And I feel like all of this is leads up to picky eating in general. But what I will say first is a million years ago, more than a decade, I feel like it was more than a decade ago, there was changes in the school nutrition program nationally and then statewise. And back in those days, I was contracted to go review school food service programs and lunch programs.

And the takeaway is that the lunch program was as good or as awesome or as robust as the person leading it. Not shocking. And what I remember about that is as you describe, food, I've shrouded myself from being around. People saying things like, oh, is this is disgusting.

But that would be things I would hear when I would go into schools, right? That sometimes the staff would be like, oh, that is so gross. And of course the same, it's just funny, how are you going? Because at the concept at that time was, let's get dark green vegetables and let's get red orange vegetables and let's get some beans in, et cetera.

And so these were sometime either, either the school was already doing this. Or they weren't because of the people running it we're like, that's disgusting. And so they're projecting their stuff onto these kids. And so I only share that because that's exactly what I thought of when you were describing this stuff, is Oh, yes.

And don't forget the other people who are also feeding your children. Or projecting their stuff on them, for better or for worse, but it's a good point. It's yeah, this is where we're also picking it up from for who knows how long. Our entire life potentially. Okay, we talked about how baby led weaning, one of the original definitions was Whole Foods, et cetera.

So let's talk about processed baby foods. This is a topic of interest for you, right? Ultra. What's the research show on ultra processed baby foods and what counts as an, what are some common foods as ultra processed baby foods, and what's their role in the food landscape for kiddos? 

[00:19:06] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: Yeah. It's funny, I just took a walk down the baby food aisle like a few weeks ago, and basically, I guess you can qualify ultra processed baby foods as maybe basically like the baby snacks, like the wafers, the puffs.

To a certain extent. They really have to look at what the ingredients are, and the issue with these is that there's just hidden things in there that are not necessary, especially sugar especially. There's a lot of. Added sugar and baby foods, which is funny because the a P says no, no added sugar under two, yet almost every wafer on the market has one to two grams of added sugar in it.

And it's fascinating. So these are also marketed to parents as you're in a rush, which parents are, you're in a rush. You need to get the door to daycare. You can give your little one this. When they're teething, it's so good for them. But then those snacks and those things start to take place of regular foods and meals.

They become something that you're reaching for every single day, and then, oh, all of a sudden your little one's getting added sugar every day. 

[00:20:08] Christa Biegler, RD: I was actually thinking about the concept of snacking all day versus meals, and I feel like this is another big parent pain point that I've seen. What advice would you say to a parent whose kid just wants to snack all the time and doesn't want to eat at a mealtime?

[00:20:24] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: Yeah. I talked about this before. It's, I feel like it's really hard. And the schedule to, for a lot of families to do the classic breakfast, lunch, dinner because of daycare, drop off sports practice for older kids. But, and then if you have younger kids, when are you gonna feed them? So if you're stuck in this grazing snack rut, instead of flipping your whole world upside down and trying to change your schedule, which just may not be possible for you, swapping out what you're offering can be the first step.

So if you're going to offer a snack. Make sure that the ingredients are all whole foods, no added sugar. Pick a puff, pick a cracker pick something that doesn't have any of those added stuff in it. Try to then pair it with the foods that are actually in it. So an example would be like getting strawberry puffs and pairing it with actual strawberries over time.

Trying to get those strawberry puffs out. Give them just the strawberries, offer a pouch and then offer, thinly sized apples. If they're ready to chew that, go thin out the pouch. Then give them just the apples and make those whole foods swaps first before trying to tackle the grazing. 

[00:21:33] Christa Biegler, RD: That's such an interesting concept.

I really like it. It's also a game in my head. It's yes, it's, oh, let's actually just give it, give them the same thing and it just works in the brain. It's let's associate these things and it's Hey, here's the whole version of it. I love that. I've never heard that one either.

Okay, so you've got your. First preschooler, you've got one in uterus. You've kinda lived through all these stages. What would you go back and tell yourself, like throughout the years? How would you tell, what would you say to Jordan, in retrospect when your first was born about feeding?

[00:22:04] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: Yeah. I wish I could tell myself before I had my first Paul, that the world is gonna be so noisy telling you all of these different things that you should be doing. And it's going to feel so overwhelming, especially as we're living in this age of we have so much information, yet we feel like we actually don't have any information.

'cause it's just overwhelming. And to first and foremost, listen to your mom gut because everything else out there is just a recommendation. It's just a suggestion. But we're built with something inside of us that knows what is right or wrong or best for our child. So take the information, but at the end of the day, focus on what.

You actually believe in what sits well with you. And I was able to really do that with my second, especially when she was completely different than my first. And I was like, wow, I'm so much calmer because I tried some things that worked with Paul, didn't work for her. And instead of forcing it, because this is the recommendation, I just did what was best for her instead.

And we were all happier. 

[00:23:06] Christa Biegler, RD: No, I think that makes sense. I think a lot of us come to that at some point. At some point of our journey. Okay. So you've had this online presence for a while. You have a lot of different resources. I'm curious, what is one or two or three of your most popular resources?

'cause that kind of tells us what people are most like yearning for. 

[00:23:25] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: Yeah. When we first became a team, my most popular resource was our Starting Solids handbook. And I think it was because. We talk equally about starting with purees, which a lot of parents are comfortable with because a lot of parents aren't comfortable with baby led weaning, and we need to be okay with that.

We need to tell parents it's okay. You don't need to come out the gate with the chicken wing. Like you can start with applesauce, you can start with mashed banana, but here's how to get up that texture hierarchy so that resource equally supports parents regardless of how they want to start solids and helps them troubleshoot on both ways.

But then recently. People have really been loving our playbooks for zero to three years of age, which is just how to help your little one meet all of their milestones developmentally for speech, gross motor and fine motor, using no special toys, only what you have at home, which is so great for parents in a pinch, like, how do I play, what am I supposed to do?

What are the milestones that are expected for my baby, toddler and almost preschooler? So those are our two like big powerhouse resources. 

[00:24:26] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. Do you have a favorite story of a parent who reached out to you around resources? I just like stories, right? And I know that you had a lot of, clinical experience when you were in your dream job, but then you transitioned to online.

And so I don't know what that looks like if you still communicate a lot with people. But I'd love to hear just like a fun story about feeding that is close to your heart that maybe, 'cause I'm sure in a lot of team cultures we like to celebrate wins of those in our community. So I'd just love to hear a story as well.

[00:24:55] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: Yeah, I got an email shortly after we released. We have a Starting Solids Handbook and then we have a moving past Purees guide, which is literally helping parents who started on Pure and just got stuck and they just cannot get to that next level, and they're anxious, their baby's gagging, et cetera. I got an email saying, thank you so much for your step-by-step breakdown for moving past purees.

It was the first time my baby didn't gag and she ate something other than a smooth puree. I could just feel like the anxiety lifting from her, like the light is here. We can get to mash solids, we can get to chewable foods, and I love that because I know that it's so overwhelming if you just feel like developmentally your little one is stuck and you're just not sure what to do.

Yeah. 

Cool. 

[00:25:40] Christa Biegler, RD: I appreciate being able to ask you, questions that are just not my expertise in this space. We approach babies and toddlers from skin issues and sleep issues and just sort of those things from the inside out. And like I said, we're very complimentary, but there are things that you guys do.

That I don't really touch at all. Related to yeah, how you touch the food and eat the food and all the pe and there's definitely people in my realm that are specialists around that area as well. Jordan, where can people find you online? 

[00:26:07] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: They can find me on Instagram I'm most active, which is eat, play, say.

We also just got a brand new, beautiful website, took almost a whole year. So eat, play say.com is there, we have 11 free downloads. Go take something. They're so great from our whole team. And yeah, those are my two most popular places. 

[00:26:25] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on today and for sharing that, that you are out there and I, you know what?

One really cool thing is that there are, whether we wanna look at it as overwhelm or as opportunity, there's a lot of really cool resources for parents that wanna do things their way. And so you provide a light for that. So I appreciate the work that you do. 

[00:26:45] Jordyn Gorman, SLP: Thank you. I so much fun talking to.